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It sounds as though there might not be enough clarity at this point. Making the transition to a circular economy is a really important mission for all of us.

Let us stick with procurement, which is a specialist area. I apologise that we did not get your document in time, because of the recent information technology problems. What are some of the barriers and challenges around procurement? I heard, for example, that some local suppliers who provide goods on a leasing basis and who can refurbish goods often find that they cannot supply the public sector because of the way in which budgets are measured, so local authorities and the public sector end up buying things brand new, which might sometimes be the right approach but is not always. Are those the kinds of conversations that take place? How does that feed up to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities or the Scottish Government?

That is very helpful, Mark.

I have a supplementary question for Ailsa Raeburn. You talked about the fact that it can be more difficult for larger councils to get engagement right. I doubt that we will change the size of our local authorities overnight, so what advice do you have for them? What would you like them to do differently?

Yes, we could move on to Philip Revell and perhaps come back to Ailsa if she reconnects.

Sorry, convener—I am getting a message on my screen as I have had to reconnect. I missed the past five minutes as I had some IT problems; I apologise for that.

I want to pick up on the theme of waste management and the role of public bodies in Scotland in the journey to a circular economy. I will ask our second panel of witnesses specifically about the role of communities. How well are local authorities involving communities in the full agenda? We heard some frustrations from witnesses on the previous panel about resources and some aspects of engagement. I am interested to hear what the main challenges and opportunities are. Perhaps Philip Revell can start.

That is helpful; thank you, Philip. You will probably be aware that an MSP has proposed a right to food (Scotland) bill, so you might want to engage with that.

Convener, it looks as though we do not have Ailsa, so I am happy to hand back to you. If Ailsa’s connection returns, perhaps we can hear from her towards the end of the session.

I will let you get some water. Before I move on to Adam McVey and Jenny Laing, I have a brief supplementary question for Susan Aitken, if she can recover her voice, which I hope the others will also pick up. We are trying to get into really granular examples—the practical decisions that people make every day.

Last year, I did some research into the number of nappies that go to landfill in Scotland. I think that it is 160 million nappies every year, but only five out of 32 local authorities in Scotland have a real nappy initiative. North Ayrshire Council has the best example. Is that the kind of scheme that Glasgow City Council and others should be looking at? We know that nappies are expensive, but cloth nappies can be quite pricey. Is that something that is discussed through your networks in COSLA? It could make a real practical difference. If Susan Aitken is able to speak now, I will bat that back to her.

Margaret Davidson touched on the polluter pays principle. I ask Simon Fieldhouse to answer the question from a Dumfries and Galloway perspective.

I will stick with this important topic. The committee is keen to find out how councils are working with partners to promote recycling and a shift to the circular economy. We have heard today from council leaders that the business sector is important. I was struck by what Councillor Aitken said about Glasgow being seen as a leader on the circular economy. I do not want to sound too negative, but it is a reality check that Scottish household waste recycling rates are the worst in the UK. Only 42 per cent of household waste was recycled in 2020, and Glasgow sits near the bottom of the league table. What lessons are being learned from other parts of the UK?

In a previous meeting, Zero Waste Scotland told us that Scotland’s waste system is somewhat fragmented. What are councils doing to share best practice in meeting the challenges? We have heard why recycling rates have been low and about what needs to change. Please talk about your own experiences. I would also like to know about energy from waste, and particularly about incinerators. Zero Waste Scotland told us that incineration is not low carbon and that we are too reliant on incineration and landfill. Do your councils support a moratorium or potential ban on incinerators? Are you consulting your communities about that?

Thank you, Councillor Aitken. I will pass back to the convener, because I am getting a message that we are running out of time. I would like to hear from Councillor McVey and Councillor Laing, but perhaps they can follow up in writing with any points that need to be covered.

That is helpful. I will pivot back to the issues of the circular economy and recycling. As part of the inquiry, the committee is keen to understand how councils are working with a range of partners on those aims. In the earlier evidence session, we heard from our city colleagues about the challenges with recycling. Why are recycling rates quite low? What needs to change? There is a lot of focus on the role of incinerators and the waste hierarchy. What is the view—if there is one—in your authorities on the potential for a moratorium or ban on such facilities? I will ask Margaret Davidson to come in first.