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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Unfortunately, Graham Simpson鈥檚 intervention means that everyone else now wants to come back in. I am going to make this the very final question. Willie Coffey started it all, so I am going to invite Willie to ask the very last question in this morning鈥檚 session.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Mr Rennick, do you want a final word?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Before we finish, Graham Simpson has one other question about the mutual investment model.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 18th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2024. We have received apologies this morning from Colin Beattie.

The first item on our agenda is for the committee to consider whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Are we content to do that?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that. We will get into a bit more of the detail of that as the morning develops. I invite Willie Coffey to open the questioning.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Mr Reekie, in your broader survey of PFI contracts, are you aware of the quantum of PFI contracts that are coming up over the next few years that have these exit fees?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

I want to revisit a question that was asked earlier. Is it a policy position of the Scottish Government that, on expiry of the PFI contracts, they will all transfer into the public sector?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

I want to explore that dynamic a little bit more, particularly your relationship with the minister or the cabinet secretary, for example. As the Public Audit Committee, we are interested when we hear about a written authority being sought by civil servants from ministers. Last year, we had such a case with the decision to continue with the procurement of MV Glen Rosa, as it is now called鈥攁t the time, it was vessel 802鈥攆rom Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow. The only other instance in recent memory went all the way back to 2007, and that was a decision by the justice secretary at the time not to proceed with the construction of Low Moss prison under PFI. Presumably, the civil service advice was against such a move and, therefore, a written authority was required. Is there any possibility of such conversations being had or outcomes being reached as the PFI contracts expire?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

It was before my time, too, Mr Rennick, but these are instructive lessons from history.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Richard Leonard

My final questions are predominantly for Mr Reekie and Ms Alexander. First, on the capacity of the Scottish Futures Trust, are you able to give advice to the extent that you would like? Indeed, what form does that advice take? You are, in a sense, an investment arm. What advice are you giving Mr Rennick and other directors general as well as other parts of the public sector, including people such as Ms Medhurst? What does your advice cover?