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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

But that is the target, is it not? That is what the 20 per cent target is based on.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes—thank you very much. That is helpful. We will bring in the Transport Scotland representatives shortly.

Before I bring in Graham Simpson, I want to ask you about one area in the report. We have had exchanges about this before, cabinet secretary—it is about the peak fares experiment pilot. In case study 1 in the report, the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission specifically make the point that the evaluation conducted by Transport Scotland of the removal of the pilot on peak fares on the railways suggested that no consideration was given to the impact on car use of the removal of that pilot. Why on earth would that be?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

As two committee members still have questions to put to you, we will try to speed things up slightly. I invite Stuart McMillan to put his questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Just for the record, I think that there has been only one Secretary of State for Scotland since the election but two Secretaries of State for Transport.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2, which is the main item on our agenda this morning, is further consideration of the report “Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”, which was produced jointly by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission.

Before we get to that, though, I declare an interest as the convener of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers—RMT—Scottish parliamentary group.

I welcome our witnesses. We are very pleased to be joined by Fiona Hyslop, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport. Alongside the cabinet secretary are Alison Irvine, the chief executive of Transport Scotland; Fiona Brown, the interim director of transport strategy and analysis at Transport Scotland; and Heather Cowan, the head of climate change and just transition for Transport Scotland. We are also very pleased to welcome Councillor Gail Macgregor, who is the leader of Dumfries and Galloway Council and environment and economy spokesperson for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. It is in that capacity that she joins us today. Alongside Councillor Macgregor is Robert Nicol, the chief officer for environment and economy at COSLA.

We have a number of questions to put to you but, before we get to those, I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

So you disagree with the Auditor General’s conclusion.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

You do not accept the findings; you simply accept the recommendations.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

The report that was published in January this year by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission for Scotland says of the Scottish Government that there has been

“a lack of leadership”,

which has

“resulted in minimal progress against the demanding policy intention.”

I invite Gail Macgregor to tell us whether COSLA accepts the findings and recommendations of the report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that answer. You said that you had been in post from 2022 onwards. I do not know whether Mr Nicol was around in 2020—

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I ask the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, to put some final questions to you.