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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 June 2025
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Displaying 3264 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 2 March 2023

Richard Leonard

I am looking at recommendation 3.4 in the action plan.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 2 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Pat, you have shared your experience of dealing with commissioners’ offices over many years. Is it usual for there to be a split between the roles of commissioner and accountable officer?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 2 March 2023

Richard Leonard

If anyone were to take up Pat Kenny’s recommendation of an end-to-end review, that issue might be worth considering. From the committee’s point of view, it might be useful if we were able to get data on the accountable officer/commissioner role in the various commissions that are accountable to Parliament. It would be useful for us to have sight of that, because the position of accountable officer is in the Scottish public finance manual as a designated position and is, invariably, I think, the person who is the most senior official in the organisation.

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 2 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I think that it is right that we leave the last word to you, Pat, because it has felt a bit like an exit interview, given the candour with which you have shared your honest assessment of what is going on out there. I found that extremely useful.

I thank the Auditor General, Richard Robinson and Pat Kenny for their evidence. We have found it a very useful session. As a committee, we will consider our next steps. Thank you for your contributions this morning.

10:04 Meeting continued in private until 11:39.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Did you have conversations with the business about the fact that its accounts would not be audited?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

My final question is about sponsorship arrangements, which the committee has taken a keen interest in. We have dealt, over the years, with good and bad examples of such arrangements. A review carried out in 2021 made 14 recommendations, and, permanent secretary, you gave an undertaking that those recommendations would be implemented by, I think, the end of December 2022. As we meet on 23 February 2023, have you met your ambition of implementing all 14 recommendations?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Good. Craig Hoy will now ask some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes. I do not think that I was suggesting that people are not working hard, permanent secretary; I was asking whether we are prioritising, whether the strategy is right and whether the leadership is there. Many of us remember the Christie commission, which had a full-scale agenda for reform involving early intervention, doing things differently and investing at the right time in order to have the most effective outcomes. Much of that remains underutilised. To quote the Auditor General again, I note that he has spoken at various times about the “implementation gap”. The stated aims are very worthy, but the question that we are bound to ask is what is going on out there on the ground.

We are short of time, so we will move on to questions from Craig Hoy.

10:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We have two or three more critical areas that we want to cover before the session ends. One of those is public sector reform, which I think Alison Cumming alluded to a few minutes ago.

We know that, following the resource spending review, last May or June, an outline of public sector reform priorities was set forward by the Government that spoke about

“New approaches to public services (such as the development of the National Care Service)”,

“Reforms to public sector capacity and pay”,

“Efficiencies for the public sector, including further use of shared services?and efficiencies in the management of the public sector estate”,

and

“Reform to Scotland’s 129 public bodies.”

What progress have you made with that agenda?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

I am afraid that you cannot get away with mentioning Prestwick airport without Willie Coffey wishing to come in with a question, so I invite him to put his point.