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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 June 2025
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Displaying 3264 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes—it would not be the first time that accountable officers have said, in front of the Public Audit Committee, that they have agreed all the recommendations in full, and then proceeded to give evidence that suggested that they did not. [Laughter.]

Roz McCall has follow-up questions on certain areas but, before I get to her, I invite Willie Coffey to come in.

Public Audit Committee

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

I agree with that.

Thank you all very much indeed for your evidence this morning. I am sorry that we have been a bit short of time. Perhaps we should have allocated a bit more time. The discussion of your work programme is important for us, because it is a first step in a path that is ahead of you, of engaging with other committees of the Parliament so as to be informed about what would be the most useful areas of work for you to concentrate on and to pick up some of their empirical insights on the policy areas that they have dealt with over the past year and those that they are looking forward to dealing with in the future.

Again, I thank the Auditor General, Gemma Diamond and Mark Taylor for giving evidence, and I move the committee into private session.

11:17 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Did you pay for the legal advice that you sought on whether the cases that were dismissed without investigation could be resurrected? Was it your legal advice or was it the Parliament’s?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

We mentioned at the beginning the number of recommendations. You have subdivided some of them, so you are working on 26 recommendations. Based on the Audit Scotland breakdown, there were 22 recommendations, and it was reported to us that 10 had been implemented, 10 were work in progress and two had been set aside or had been overtaken by events and so on.

Can you tell us what progress you are making? Do you accept that breakdown—that analysis that says that around half of the recommendations have been implemented but around half are still work in progress? Is that still a representation that you recognise of where you are as an organisation?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

That will be good. We are a Public Audit Committee. On the one hand, we do not believe in coincidence and, on the other, we like to see statistical evidence to support arguments that are put before us.

I have another small question. When you replied to Willie Coffey, you mentioned the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. You are, of course, an independent commissioner.

Public Audit Committee

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I am conscious of the time, so I encourage members and witnesses to make their questions and answers as concise as possible. I turn to Colin Beattie to ask a couple of questions about digital exclusion.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Do you not qualify that by saying what the average wait is? I know that you do not want to falsely raise people’s expectations, but it can also be a deterrent. If I have a complaint about the way that I was treated last week and am told that that behaviour will not be addressed for eight months, there is the issue that other incidents might happen between now and then to people who might be in the same position as me. In my view, that seems to be an odd decision to take.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I am going to move things on now. An issue that we have come back to several times this morning, but also in previous evidence sessions that we have had with the Auditor General, is staffing capacity and performance. I invite Roz McCall to ask some questions on that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Roz McCall touched on that in her questions. The report that we have before us from Audit Scotland, which is a recent report, albeit that it is on the previous financial year, recounts that there was a proposal to restructure the staffing in the office that would generate savings of almost half a million pounds—£450,000—but that has been reversed. That sends a signal to us that there was a proposal to scale down quite significantly the operations of the commissioner’s office, maybe in line with the 84 per cent rejection rate. If you could come back on that point, that would be helpful.

Public Audit Committee

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

We turn to questions from our deputy convener.