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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 3264 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We turn to our main item of business. Agenda item 2 is consideration of “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”. We are joined by four witnesses, who will give us evidence on their perspectives on the report and will answer the questions that we have about it.

I am very pleased to welcome our witnesses. David Tydeman is the chief executive officer of FMPG and Andrew Miller is the chair of the board. From the Scottish Government, we are joined by Gregor Irwin, who is the director-general economy, and Colin Cook, who is the director of economic development.

We have quite a number of questions to put to you but, before we get to our questions, I will give you the opportunity to make short opening statements. First, I invite David Tydeman to make a short statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

It was, however, very much a “On the one hand ... and on the other” piece of advice that you gave, which I think is an interesting approach.

I will move on to something else to do with the written authority decision. In your answers to Sharon Dowey, you mentioned external commercial advisers. Are you prepared to share the workings of those commercial advisers with the committee?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We understand that and have, as a committee, stated on numerous occasions that we are fully behind FMPG and the yard winning more work and being successful.

Mr Irwin, you have mentioned the Scottish public finance manual a few times now. I point out that it contains a section on this committee and your accountability not just to Parliament but to the committee, in particular. The advice in the manual, to you as the accountable officer, is that

“You may also be called on to satisfy the Committee that all relevant financial considerations were brought to the attention of Ministers”.

With that in mind, are you prepared to share that information with us?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I go back to my earlier question, which was this: are you prepared to share that information with the committee? We understand entirely that some elements of the work that you do in relation to FMPG are commercially sensitive, but I presume that the information could be supplied to us in a way such that it would not compromise commercial and confidential information.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Can you give us, this morning, a timescale for when you will make decisions on what can or cannot be released?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Let me turn to something else that will put under scrutiny your commitment to openness and transparency—the First Marine International report. Can you explain to us why you are not prepared to release that into the public domain?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

According to your letter to me, however, when I add in the VAT, a quarter of a million pounds of public money has been spent on commissioning that FMI report. Are you saying that nothing about it can be published?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Why is the report covered by a non-disclosure agreement?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

So we should knock on Gregor Irwin’s door.

Finally on this subject, one of the principal recommendations was, I presume, about productivity. You mentioned comparisons with other northern European yards. However, part of the minute of the FMPG board meeting on 2 February 2023, which Andrew Miller chaired and which Colin Cook attended, I think, says that “CM”, which I understand to mean Chris Mackay, who is a non-executive director, noted that the FMI report—it says “reports”, so we will come to whether there was one report or two—said that the yard needs to be three times as productive as it is. That means that some of the information in the FMI report is out in the public domain.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 1 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. We need to move on. We understand that there are commercially sensitive pieces of information that would almost certainly be contained in that report, but I am not sure that we accept your argument, Mr Irwin, that the methodology of the consultants needs to be protected.

09:45  

I will turn to another area that we spoke to the Auditor General about, when he was before the committee—the overall framework agreement for pay. The yard was nationalised towards the end of 2019, so why did it take until March 2022 before a framework agreement on pay and remuneration was agreed?