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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I turn to the representatives of COSLA. Joanna Anderson, I am sure that your ears pricked up when you heard the director general say that no local authority had approached the Government for additional support for capital investment. What is the local government perspective on what has happened with capital spending?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

But is it the right hard data?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

I am not sure that we accept that data and delivery are two entirely separate entities. I think that there is an extremely strong relationship between the two.

Willie Coffey has some questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

I hope that one of the outcomes that is measured is not just economistic but is about the flowering of the human spirit and how the programme will help the children and young people going through it to prosper in the future—not just as economic units, but as human beings.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson wants to come in on a similar theme.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is for members to consider whether to take items 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

The main item on our agenda is to take evidence on the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on adult mental health, which was co-written with the Accounts Commission. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: Auditor General Stephen Boyle; Leigh Johnston, senior manager, Audit Scotland; Eva Thomas-Tudo, audit manager, Audit Scotland; and Christine Lester, Accounts Commission.

We have a large number of questions to ask but, before we get on to those, I ask the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that introduction. To go back to the starting point of the audit, the question that you set yourself was:

“How effectively are adult mental health services across Scotland being delivered?”

How would you summarise your answer to that critical question?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I will come on to ask about the focus groups in a second. Before I do so, I note that paragraph 15 in the report sets out the scale of the challenge that we face. It talks about what appear to be almost epidemic proportions, in that 22 per cent of the adult population

“may have a psychiatric disorder”.

You talk about the huge expansion in pressure and demand on services. For example,

“The number of police incidents relating to mental health increased by 62 per cent ...The Scottish Association for Mental Health ... reported a 50 per cent increase in demand for its information service”

and

“The number of calls to NHS 24’s 111 Mental Health Hub increased by 436 per cent”.

Those are startling figures, which are presumably placing huge pressure on the system. We might not have measured the outcomes, but we know something about the scale of the demand that there is.

Do you want to tell us a bit more about the qualitative information that you got from the focus groups that you met and what that told you about their experience?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay, but is it therefore possible that that spend was deprioritised?