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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 27th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first agenda item is for committee members to decide whether to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed for that opening statement. We move straight to questions. I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to ask the first set of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Before we move on, I want to pick up on the theme of transparency that you mentioned in your opening remarks. Paragraph 9 of the briefing paper, which is where the deputy convener started her questioning, states:

“Details are available for only £14.9 billion of the £26 billion of infrastructure investment originally announced.”

In the same paragraph, we find expressions such as

“it is not possible to compare ... makes it difficult to compare”

and

“It does not assess”.

That is a series of criticisms of the transparency of the available data. Have you had any initial response to that from the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

We will return to some of those themes over the next 45 minutes to an hour. I will now bring in Willie Coffey, who has some questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

On the point that, of the

“45 projects, the costs of eight had increased, 13 had been delayed and a further three had been paused”,

that means, does it not, that fewer than half are on track in terms of cost and timescale?

We hear what you said about it not being possible to be too precise about cost and delivery dates. However, I presume that people build in a degree of flexibility, with an indicative date of completion for an infrastructure project. You might make allowances for snagging and so on as part of the process. We are talking about a substantial number of infrastructure projects that have problems associated with them.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thanks. That is helpful. Does Graham Simpson want to come in on that point?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Just going back to the equality and fairer Scotland duty, I am looking at the Government’s statement, which was authorised in March 2021, so it has been in place for more than two years. When I read the statement, I wondered how those assessments will be made. It says that plans will have to be

“fully Equality & Fairer Scotland Impact Assessed”.

How is the Government doing that? Have you seen any evidence that it has been doing it at all?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Our main item this morning is agenda item 2, which is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing paper, “Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”, which was published at the end of September. I am pleased to welcome the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, who is joined by Ashleigh Madjitey and Dharshi Santhakumaran, from Audit Scotland. Ashleigh is an audit manager and Dharshi is a senior audit manager.

Before we get into the questions, I ask the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

So those are not projects with work under way on the ground or on which construction has commenced. They are in a pipeline, and that will include sign-off of the business case.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 2 November 2023

Richard Leonard

I know that Willie Coffey also wants to come in on this point. I note that the briefing paper talks about the Scottish Futures Trust’s role in advising the Government in advance of difficult decisions on the prioritisation of projects. Its advice, therefore, is not just on the contractual terms that might be negotiated around a PFI, public-private partnership or whatever arrangement coming to an end; it also offers the Government an advisory role in establishing what is called in paragraph 10 of the briefing “a prioritisation framework”. Can you elaborate on that? We have talked about prioritisation being necessary, funding being challenging and difficult decisions having to be made, but do we know how the Government will make those decisions? Have we seen that framework, for example?