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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The default position of the contract with FMI was secrecy, was it not? There are two paragraphs about that in the letter that you wrote to me on 4 April. The first talks about how

“all information will be treated as commercial in confidence by the parties.”

That was the condition of your contractual arrangement with FMI. The second states:

“In addition, FMI applied a disclaimer to the report which requires their consent for the report, or information contained within the report, to be shared beyond the parties to the contract.”

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Do those consultants have any exposure to risk themselves or do they just get a reward from those exercises? If things have not gone well—clearly, they have not gone that well at FMPG—does FMI assume any responsibility?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

As the saying goes, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

I want to tie up a few loose ends before we finish the evidence session. First, on that last point, why on earth are there any commercial confidentiality issues around the terms of reference for the study by FMI?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The Public Audit Committee deals with optimism bias a lot of the time, but, this morning, I think that we are experiencing some pessimism bias. I do not think that it is unreasonable to expect that the objective terms of reference of a piece of work that has been commissioned by the Scottish Government should be in the public domain.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Again, we will view that in light of future experience.

I turn to the other issue that we have been looking at this morning, but have not significantly dwelt on. Again, I just want to run through this as a matter of record. One of the pieces of information that you disclosed to us in February, which was quite transparent and open of you, was the EY study into BiFab. At the end of that report, EY made a series of recommendations to the Scottish Government about how it might improve things in future cases.

As we have touched on already, the report spoke about identifying

“key sectors ... of strategic importance”

that the Government ought to identify. It also said that

“SCAD should ... engage with public sector agencies”.

We have heard a little about how that goes on, although I would be interested to know whether the Scottish National Investment Bank is part of that engagement process.

I turn to three particular recommendations in that report, and I will ask you, director general, whether you have implemented those recommendations.

One was a recommendation that the Scottish Government

“should establish a standardised triage process for intervention requests”

in order to establish a “go/no-go” decision framework. Have you done that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I mean the other shipyards that are potentially in competition with Ferguson Marine for some of those contracts, for example. Is there a disclosure clause that means that you understand who else is a part of its client base, to ensure that there is no conflict of interest, for example?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

It does not work both ways, though, does it? We are sat here with hardly any information at all, all at the say-so of that overseas-owned multinational consultancy company.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I should declare an interest. On my voluntary register of trade union interests is my membership of the GMB trade union.

It might have been better asking the shop stewards about the layout of the yard rather than spending large amounts of public money to ask FMI to provide that for you. Do you not see that there might be a conflict of interest if FMI’s clients include people who are competing against FMPG for the public procurement contracts?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will come back to some of those areas later on.

The deputy convener has got a short question before Graham Simpson comes in with more questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will see what happens in the future.

I turn to some of the other recommendations in the transparency review. Can I get an update from you on where you are with that? You pledged to create a web page with up-to-date information on SCAD and its work. Have you done that?