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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 June 2025
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Displaying 3264 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I am going to move us on to the final couple of areas that we want to speak to you about. One is around the corporate transformation programme. Paragraphs 84 and 85 in the audit report talk about that and remind us of the escalation in costs and the slippage in timetable of the new systems for human resources and finance. The original cost was estimated to be ÂŁ22 million. It has now almost doubled; it has gone up to ÂŁ40 million. The date of implementation was meant to be the middle of last year for the HR system and the end of last year for the finance system. We are now told that it will not be until April of this year. Can you provide us with an update on where that is? Are you going to meet those revised timetables?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Is an external information technology contractor involved?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

With these kind of contracts, is there never any consideration given to the agreement of a fixed-price contract, rather than some kind of cost-plus, evolving and ever-increasing price tag?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Sorry for my ignorance—I have not started reading “Computer Weekly” just yet, although it has been in the news quite a lot recently. Is Oracle the name of the software or the name of the company that provides it? Who is the IT provider? What is the name of the commercial outfit that is providing the system?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

And its head count.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you very much.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Well, pretty much every item is categorised. For example, there is one here called “Taxation: A Very Short Introduction” and another called “Marx: A Very Short Introduction”. Both are listed as

“Appropriate under current policy - recommended to review policy exclusions and out of scope expenditure moving forward.”

What does that mean?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the second meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item on the committee’s agenda is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I note that the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, joins us online this morning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

The principal agenda item is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 22 report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts. I am particularly pleased to welcome our witnesses, who are the most senior team from the Scottish Government. The permanent secretary, John-Paul Marks, joins us, and is very welcome. The director general economy, Gregor Irwin, is also here. Jackie McAllister, who is the chief financial officer, and Alison Cumming, who is the director for budget and public spending in the Scottish Government, also join us.

We have quite a wide range of questions to put to you this morning, permanent secretary, but, before we get to those, I invite you to make a short opening statement.