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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 3624 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much for that comprehensive summary of the report, which touches on many of the areas that we want to ask you about.

You mentioned in that opening statement—and it is a stand-out conclusion of the report—that NHS Ayrshire and Arran has the highest level of outstanding brokerage of any territorial health board in Scotland. You say in the report that the figure for the audited year 2024-25 was £51.4 million, which represents 4.3 per cent of revenue resource limit.

Can you tell us how that compares with other health boards? Is NHS Ayrshire and Arran a real outlier or are there other health boards that are in a similar position or going in that direction?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Richard Leonard

In theory, at least, brokerage loans are loans that are expected to be repaid, but when it is projected that NHS Ayrshire and Arran will have a cumulative financial deficit of ÂŁ112 million, and it has outstanding loans of ÂŁ129.9 million, is it realistic to expect that any of that money will be paid back? Indeed, would that be the right thing to do?

09:45  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Richard Leonard

The other issue that comes into this picture is the requirement on all health boards to find recurring savings of 3 per cent. I have always found it a little incongruous that, in an era in which we are seeing historically high levels of spending in the national health service, we are expecting health boards to make 3 per cent savings. Could you talk us through how that is supposed to work, especially in the context of a health board such as NHS Ayrshire and Arran, which, as we have just discussed, has massive brokerage, a massive projected cumulative financial deficit and so on?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Just for completeness, does the report talk about savings being wrongly classified as recurring when they were non-recurring savings?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Richard Leonard

That is an issue of transparency for us, but, as you say, it is also an issue for the people who have responsibility for the safe governance and effective leadership of the board.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

We all recognise it. Do you accept the recommendations and findings?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. At the outset, do you accept the findings and recommendations of Audit Scotland’s report?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

I will finish by going back to a point that Colin Beattie raised. With the subsidiaries and other enterprises that colleges are entering into, is there a proper sense of the risk that is involved? Are the governance structures fit for purpose to give proper oversight to and have accountability for such initiatives?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

What do you understand “value for money” to mean?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. In the interests of time, I will go straight to Colin Beattie.