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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has some questions to put.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. On that note, I will draw this morning’s evidence session to a close. I thank Teresa Medhurst for her evidence this morning. I thank Gerry O’Donnell and Allister Purdie for the information that they have given us and that they are going to give us when they get a chance to put some things in writing to us. I also thank Neil Rennick and Catriona Dalrymple for their evidence to us this morning, which will, I am sure, inform the work that we are continuing to do.

As I said at the start, the report is a section 22 report into the Scottish Prison Service, which is a signal that the Auditor General has some real concerns about the operation not just of the GEOAmey contract but more widely about the way the prison service is in terms of overcrowding, the estate and so on. As Jamie Greene finished on, that is important from the perspective of rehabilitation and the differences that imprisonment will make.

Thank you for your evidence this morning. I will now move the committee into private session.

10:27 Meeting continued in private until 11:37.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

One of the issues that has come up in each of the evidence sessions that we have had is the threat of human rights litigation. You have just given us the latest figure for the prison population, which is, once again, an increase on the previous figure. When we heard from the Auditor General and Michael Oliphant from Audit Scotland on 1 February, they said that overcrowding was, in the words of the Auditor General, a “live risk” of litigation, and Michael Oliphant said that it was a “big risk”. How would you characterise it?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 14th meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is to ask whether the committee agrees to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, indeed. I turn to the director general.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Can you both confirm that I can take from your opening remarks that you accept the findings that are set out in the Auditor General’s report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Right. Graham Simpson has some questions to put.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Could I pick up on that letter to the committee from Steve Farrell of Community? I would be interested in your response to one of the things that he says, which is, if I can paraphrase, that the prison service has been poaching GEOAmey staff and it is therefore “perverse” for the SPS to call GEOAmey to account for having too low staff numbers and so on. He says that the SPS monopolises the monitoring of the private estate. Do you have a response to that, Teresa?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Steve Farrell thinks that there should be an independent monitor of such commercial contracts. Do you have a response to that?