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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 30 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Yes, it was. Thank you.

Secondly, you said that you thought that the global refinancing would need to be completed before the investment in the billet plant would be made. What happens if that does not materialise?

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 30 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay, thank you. I am going to bring in our deputy convener, but before I do so I have a couple of quick questions, which I hope will have quick answers.

Mr Rhatigan, did you say that the guarantee that the Scottish Government struck with GFG Alliance was also offered, via Rio Tinto, to the other four prospective bidders?

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 30 May 2024

Richard Leonard

And the venue of that is?

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 30 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Our principal item of business this morning is to consider the Scottish Government’s approach to financial interventions, and in particular to inquire into the operations of the Government’s strategic commercial assets division. I am pleased that the following witnesses are joining us this morning to help to illuminate that question and to answer others that we might have.

I am very pleased to welcome Gregor Irwin, the director general of economy at the Scottish Government. Alongside Mr Irwin is Colin Cook, who is the Scottish Government’s director of economic development, and Dermot Rhatigan, who is the deputy director of the strategic commercial assets division.

As I have said, director general, we have some questions to put to you. Before we get to those, however, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Yes—based on the nods and smiles of the cabinet secretary, I will seek to withdraw it.

Amendment 16, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendment 192 moved—[Alasdair Allan]—and agreed to.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

The cabinet secretary should read a very good book by the undercover journalist Günter Wallraff, which is called “Lowest of the Low”. It is about how the West German economy treated migrant workers in the 1980s. The treatment that migrant workers in Scotland are undergoing is completely unacceptable, and the accommodation that is provided for them is way below the standard that any of us would accept. If the cabinet secretary is saying to me that imminent legislation will address that, I will, of course, withdraw my amendment. However, it would be helpful to understand from the cabinet secretary what the Government’s timetable is for that alternative legislative proposal that would address a very clear gap in current competence and legislation.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

I remind members of my voluntary register of trade union interests, particularly my membership of Unite the union, in the register of members’ interests.

The purpose of amendment 16 is to broaden the scope of those people in the industry who are covered by continuing professional development. It seems to me that having farmers, crofters and line managers in there is fine, but what about the workers?

For “farm workers”, the definition that I would use—I know that Alasdair Allan has lodged a similar amendment—would be people who are covered by the scope of the Scottish Agricultural Wages Board. On that point, Unite the union, in its submission to the Scottish Agricultural Wages Board in 2024, argued—I will quote it directly—that:

“The challenges around the climate emergency and net zero targets will require a suitably reliable and qualified workforce and the development of new skillsets, targeted upskilling/reskilling and Continuing Professional development.

Opportunities should be taken now to develop existing and new skills and provide the workforce with opportunities to access support and time off to take up training.”

Unite went on to say:

“More funding must also be made available to develop Apprenticeships to raise awareness of the sector amongst young people and to make it a career of choice, and to build a cohort of new recruits with the skills to ensure there remains a future in the industry.”

The gist of my amendment is to say that continuing development is a matter for the whole industry, not just for managers and owners, and we should be encouraging the continuing professional development of all.

I move amendment 16.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

I do not think that now is the time or place to have a rehearsal with Edward Mountain about whether a minimum rate of ÂŁ11.44 an hour is a princely sum that prohibits people from being employed or put on an apprenticeship scheme.

With regard to the particular point that the cabinet secretary made to me, there is a distinction in law between an employee and a worker. If we simply accept Alasdair Allan’s amendment 192 as it stands, I fear that we might leave out some people whom we all intend the amendment to cover. I might not press my amendment 16, but I will ask the cabinet secretary to have a conversation with me about that important dimension. As I said, the definition that I used was those people who are covered by the Scottish Agricultural Wages Board.

I do not necessarily agree with the prescription of Rachel Hamilton’s amendment but, this afternoon, we should not lose sight of the fact that agriculture has the worst rate of fatal injuries of any industry in Scotland. Health and safety should be embedded into the continuous development of the workforce—farmers, crofters and land managers.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

I will press it, convener.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Richard Leonard

Amendment 13 seeks to amend section 17, which is about the publication of information about support. The purpose of amendment 13 is to widen the scope of reporting, so that what is reported and published is not simply the name of the recipient of support and the amount and purpose of any support provided but

“the beneficial ownership of the recipient of any support provided”.

Beneficial ownership means people who ultimately own or control an asset. The standard definition is that the scope of that covers people with 25 per cent or more shares or direct or indirect voting rights in the property or company.

The purpose of amendment 13 is to promote openness and transparency and to allow us to track the redistribution that we have spoken about in earlier parts of the discussion this morning. It is regarding the application of public funds. Around half a billion pounds of public money is involved, so maximum transparency is required. That is a matter of public interest, so it should be open to public scrutiny. Amendment 13 would also prevent the misuse of corporate structures and improve the prevention of economic crimes such as fraud, money laundering and tax evasion. It is good audit practice.

I also reflect on the fact that, since 2016, people with significant control have had to be registered with Companies House. Since 2022, it has also been necessary to make a declaration regarding overseas entities in the register of overseas entities. Under the regulations on the register of persons holding a controlled interest in land, there is now a requirement for information on that to be lodged with the Registers of Scotland.

There would be only a very limited administrative burden on those who are required to make the disclosure, because the disclosures are already made. Therefore, amendment 13 is an entirely reasonable extension of transparency and openness.