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Can I clarify that?

If the bill is passed and if we have royal assent by November, the Climate Change Committee will be asked for its advice on the basis that we will have a five-year carbon budget process. I think that the committee had representatives of the Climate Change Committee in front of it last week. As it stands, that committee is saying to us that it will be able to get that advice to us in spring. We have the same question as you, namely, when in spring—in what month? Obviously, I want the advice as early as possible, but it must be the right advice.

Once we get the advice, we will analyse it and put forward the secondary legislation as quickly as possible, to get it through Parliament. At the same time, as I have explained, we will be working on the draft climate change plan, which we want to get out to the committee, stakeholders and the public as quickly as possible. If the advice from the CCC comes in, say, April, I feel confident—without making Mr Raines here too nervous—that we can publish a draft climate change plan before the summer recess. That is my ambition.

If the CCC does not give us that advice until June, the situation will be different. You said that spring ends in June; I thought that that was summer. However, that is all the more reason for getting the process in place. As soon as we get the bill through and everybody, including the CCC, knows that we are moving to five-year carbon budgets, the CCC can get working on that advice for us. I hope that we will get that advice early in spring, which would allow this committee and our stakeholders to have a draft climate change plan to chew over and deliberate on in time for coming back from recess in September.

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I have told you what I know about the work that has happened and that is taking place. However, Phil Raines, who is in the weeds of all this work, has just helpfully told me that he can give you an assessment of where the pilot is.

The section 36 report is out, and I will be—

I will check with my officials but, presumably, if we miss the five-year carbon budget, there would have to be a report.

Phil will keep me right here.

Yes.

I think that taxing the devices was considered as an option. Zero Waste Scotland’s scoping report looked at the options for managing the environmental impact of single-use vapes, but it concluded that, although taxation might support the policy objectives, it would have a limited effect if it was not tied to waste management outcomes. When it comes to the possible implementation of a duty on vapes, consideration would need to be given to the people who access them for smoking cessation and the equality impact that such a measure would have.

It could be argued that the higher the price of something, the less likely people are to buy it. However, we must recognise that, although vaping has health implications, because it involves people taking nicotine into their bloodstream—obviously, I am not a health minister, so I will not go into too much detail on this—if we make vapes too expensive, that could affect a lot of people who are trying to quit smoking, who see vapes as an alternative. Vapes are not prescribed as a smoking cessation tool. They have been brought in by manufacturers as an aid. Most smoking cessation tends to involve the use of patches, gums and so on.

In the round, the four nations thought that introducing regulations on single-use vapes would be the best first step, and that it would represent quite a large step in getting rid of the litter problem. However, that does not stop us looking at what might happen after 1 April and how consumer behaviour might change. The convener made that point, and you are making a similar point. How might behaviour shift? What might the design of reusable vapes look like? What littering implications might a shift to reusable vapes have? Although the regulations relate to single-use vapes, in the future we will have to monitor how they work and to look at some of the consequences of the kind that you have described with regard to what happens to reusable vapes.

Of course, we are looking at how we dispose of electrical items in general as part of all the waste management strategies that are in train under the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024. As vapes are one example of such items, they will be taken into account as part of that. However, I think that the regulations, in taking disposable vapes off our streets, out of our bins and out of circulation, will have an enormous impact and will be a major first step.

I am not sure whether it is quantifiable, so I will look to my officials.

There are a number of things in there. All four nations have tried to engineer the regulations to future proof them to make sure that the definition that was developed alongside all the other nations takes into account the kind of feedback that you have just given. Single-use vapes are defined in the regulations as products that are “not rechargeable” or “not refillable”. In effect, in order not to be caught by the regulations, the vape has to be rechargeable and refillable. In order to be considered rechargeable, it has to have a rechargeable battery and, separately, a replaceable coil. That seems to be quite a narrow definition, and I hope that it addresses some of your points.

Notwithstanding that, there is a huge industry associated with the manufacture of single-use vapes. It is not in the UK; it is usually in China. Are there going to be attempts to re-engineer them in a way that takes the regulations into account? Potentially, yes. We are alive to that. The very fact that they are in the regulations means that, as the four nations implement the ban, we will have to keep a keen eye on any innovations that in effect work around the regulations. We want to be able to respond to any risks that might arise, such as those resulting from innovation.

However, the regulations are quite tight in identifying the type of products in the market today that we want to take out of the system, as well as what is not a disposable vape. That addresses Jackie Dunbar’s point that, for many people, using rechargeable and refillable vapes is part of their journey away from smoking.