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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 3584 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

We will set out our figures when we publish the climate change plan.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

I will put forward the climate change plan with the costings that are associated with it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

We fundamentally disagreed that we should have a policy of reducing the herd and livestock numbers more generally. I will set out not just my thinking but the Cabinet’s thinking. I obviously do not make these decisions in isolation; I liaise with the sector and with my Cabinet colleagues, particularly in the rural economy space.

My issues with the policy of having a reduction in the herd are manifold. The implications for the rural economy of not having a meat production sector in Scotland are stark. I do not want to see an end to livestock farming in Scotland; I want meat to be locally produced to high standards of welfare and to be locally sourced and produced with a lower carbon footprint. We are working with the agriculture sector to reduce the emissions that are associated with the life cycle of the beef herd. That has been worked on thoroughly, particularly in relation to reducing methane emissions.

I disagreed with the assumptions and assertions that were made about what land could be used for if not for sheep grazing. Anybody who farms in mountainous and hilly areas would say that it is not suitable for crop growing—that is just a fact. You cannot displace sheep farming with crop growing. You could not harvest crops, so the land would not be suitable.

We also have to recognise that people in Scotland still eat meat. There is a carbon footprint associated with everything that we eat, including the vegetables that we import in winter. People should not really be eating strawberries in December, because heaven knows where they have come from and how many food miles are associated with that—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

There are two components to this. First, there is what the Government will do. I pledge to get the draft plan to you in the time that I have outlined—I am confident that we have the capacity in the Government to do that. Secondly, there is what the committee decides to do by way of scrutiny.

You have outlined that we are required by statute to bring forward a draft climate change plan within two months of Parliament agreeing to the carbon budgets, and that is followed by a 120-day period of parliamentary scrutiny. We will then have a maximum of three months to publish a finalised climate change plan. We have worked out our timings. The committee now knows our timings and will be able to undertake its programme of scrutiny.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

All I can say at this point in time is that we have worked out a timeline that will enable us to produce a final climate change plan. One reflection that I have on the previous climate change plan is that, once a new Government was in place in the new parliamentary session, many parliamentarians who had been fully behind the climate change plan and the 75 per cent reduction by 2030 would not vote to support even the most modest of proposals or the smallest of actions.

There is a big lesson in that for us in relation to getting the Parliament to sing with one voice on the challenge of our lifetimes: addressing climate change and getting to net zero. It is one thing to agree on targets, but that must be followed by collaboration and discussion on the action that is required. We are politicians, but we also have a mission. When we set targets and a direction of travel as part of that mission, it is not enough for us to say, “This is what we have to achieve.” We must work together as a Parliament and talk constructively about the actions that we will take to achieve that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

A lot needs to be done. I will be very interested to see the UK Government’s response to the challenges that have been put to it about reaching its carbon budgets, because it is going to have to make a plan to address its legal challenge in that regard.

Looking at some of the sectors involved, I have outlined in summary to Ed Miliband—my letter went out a week or two ago—the areas in which we need to see faster action at UK level to allow the devolved Governments to be able to effectively achieve their goals.

It is a symbiotic relationship. I have said many times that the UK’s target of net zero by 2050 is not achievable without Scotland achieving its 2045 target, and vice versa. So—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

No. It is going to be very challenging.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

Are you still talking about a planning application?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Gillian Martin

A planning application that could come forward.