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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 3266 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

I have in front of me some definitions and the schedules that they relate to. Waste feedstock permit level activity is set out in proposed new schedule 20 to the 2018 regulations, as inserted by schedule 11 to the amendment regulations, while permit level activity for non-waste feedstock is set out in proposed new schedule 26 to the 2018 regulations, as inserted by schedule 17 to the amendment regulations. SEPA determines the environmental limits. I hope that that is helpful.

I am trying to give you as much information as possible, but I think that SEPA is, as Phil Leeks has said, the determining body as to whether something is waste or non-waste. That is the discussion that it is having at the moment with the Scotch Whisky Association.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

Not really. The reduction of ammonia emissions has been incorporated into existing codes of practice; for example, there is the “Prevention of Environmental Pollution From Agricultural Activity”. Instead of having a completely different document and code of practice, we have brought ammonia emissions into an existing code of practice. That work has been done.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

I am hopeful that it will make a difference. The SRUC has a very good reputation in the work that it does with land managers to bring forward innovative practices that are good for the environment.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

Again, you have touched on something that is quite niche, for which I do not have a specific answer. I need to find out more about that, but SEPA would be able to advise on whether it is something that it wants me to look at. It is something that I will need to take away, convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

The oversight group reports to me. Given that, I imagine that decisions would be taken as a result of advice coming to me about any issues that might arise. I am confident that that will not happen, though, because governance arrangements have been put in place. The group has met ahead of the regulations coming into force. Its members know that scrutiny and oversight will be regular and that actions will be associated with every meeting that takes place. A report will come to me about progress on that, too.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

Although, of course, SEPA will be able to give greater detail on the operational aspects of what it is doing.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

A great deal of work has been done on odour in general in the past decade, particularly as a result of a couple of reports that came to ministers more than 10 years ago. The committee will be aware that a lot of the odour is associated with waste water treatment. Scottish Water has been undertaking a comprehensive process to improve the waste treatment centres, and it is using new technologies that reduce odour and have better environmental outcomes.

I highly recommend visiting one of Scottish Water’s new treatment centres, of which there are a few. They use a bacterial digestion process, so the waste water coming in is the only point in the process where you will smell anything. I have been to quite a few of those centres, as you can imagine, in my capacity as cabinet secretary. Very quickly, the bacterial digestion systems eliminate odour, so there have been a lot fewer complaints from anyone in the vicinity.

With regard to how the regulations relate to odour, if a member of the public detects any odour, they would initially, as always, contact their local authority. If the odour results from an activity of which SEPA has oversight, the local authority would get in touch with SEPA. By the process of reporting to the local authority, and the local authority then contacting SEPA, if there was excessive odour associated with any activity that was in breach of any of the regulations, SEPA would be monitoring that.

The activities that are authorised under these regulations include sewage treatment, which is regulated by SEPA, with the Scottish Government providing guidance on it. The definition of “pollution” in the regulations includes

“the ... introduction ... of substances ... into air, water or land which may ... cause offence to any human sense”.

That includes odour.

We hope that, as a result of bringing all those aspects into one instrument, any new activities that may have odour associated with them are now brought within the scope of the regulations and should not cause excessive offence to the senses, as the regulations set out.

As I said, however, that is happening not just as a result of the regulations. Targeted work has been done on processes around sewage in particular to reduce odour, largely as a result of investment by Scottish Water in its waste treatment works, but also resulting from the rapid acceleration in technology associated with the treatment of sewage.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

I am just having a little confab with my officials around that.

If councils are looking for specific guidance on the matter, we could produce that in order to make it clear.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

I hope that my message would be that SEPA should be working directly with that particular company and ensuring that it assists it in every way to come up to the required standards.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Gillian Martin

I do not agree that this is retrospective regulation. Regulations come into place when issues come up that need to be looked at. Consider vaping, for example. That is an innovation that has happened, but the UK and Scotland are now looking at rules associated with the harms that it causes.

So, this is not changing the goalposts; it is regulating and making sure that we have the tightest environmental and health controls on everything that is possible. It is not regulation for its own sake.