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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 August 2025
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Displaying 3268 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

We must wrap up now, as we are rapidly running out of time. I thank the witnesses for their time this morning—they have been very helpful. At our next meeting, the committee will continue its scrutiny of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill with two more evidence-taking sessions.

I now close the meeting.

Meeting closed at 12:44.  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

Emma Harper has a brief question, after which we must wrap up.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

Welcome, everyone, to the 30th meeting in 2022 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received no apologies from any members. Stephanie Callaghan will be joining us online.

Under agenda item 1, we continue our consideration of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. We will have two evidence sessions this morning. The first session will focus on a human rights approach and legislative considerations.

I welcome to the committee our three witnesses. Jennifer Paton is a policy executive with the Law Society of Scotland; Isla Davie, King’s Counsel, is from the Faculty of Advocates; and Frank Jarvis, is legal officer with the Scottish Human Rights Commission.

One of the principles that is set out in the bill—it is one of the first things in the bill—is that the services provided by the national care service

“are to be regarded as an investment in society that ... is essential to the realisation of human rights”.

Do you think that the provisions in this very high-level framework bill have the potential to address issues in the current system that have led to inconsistencies in relation to equity and the issues that we have heard about, particularly over the past couple of years, where there may not have been a consistent approach throughout the country to people’s human rights? Can this framework bill be a springboard to addressing people’s human rights when accessing care services?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

In social care throughout the country, are there gaps, such as in the provision of complaints processes or with regard to people’s ability to challenge the service that they have received on the basis of their human rights? Would the bill provide a springboard to address those gaps?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

I call Sandesh Gulhane, and then I will bring in Emma Harper.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

Is that not about the accountability of what happens in those assets?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

Paul Kelly, you were nodding. Do you want to come in on that?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

Listening to you, Eddie, I have to say that it strikes me that you are talking about good practice, which is the way that things should be. In certain parts of the country, though, things might not be working in the way that you have described. Is there an opportunity with this legislation to have consistency of approach and standards and, again, to ensure that people with lived experience have agency and are constantly at the table with the people who offer them support?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

One issue that comes before politicians is that things are done to people. The bill does things differently, with people telling us what they want at every stage. Is that not to be welcomed?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Gillian Martin

One of the issues would be sanctions for services that fall short of what is in the charter. Is that something that any of you would like to comment on? What sanctions should there be, if the charter is not complied with?