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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 3268 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Absolutely. I will also be in front of you at stage 2. Members who know me and who have been through other bills with me will know that my door is open to any members who have suggestions on how bills can be strengthened. If there is anything in the Welsh bill that you think the Scottish Government should put in this bill, by all means come and speak to me about it, because we can maybe work together on something. It does not have to be just the Government that lodges amendments; it can be members as well. I enjoy working cross-party with members to make bills stronger.

What Tim Eagle has just suggested makes sense on the surface, because delivery has to happen at a local level and in a pan-Scotland way. It cannot be about a centralised document that sits in the Scottish Parliament. Delivery on these very ambitious objectives rests on all the public bodies and on our citizens as well.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

The Orkney situation concerns the stoat population. Let me take that away and look at it.

The “Scottish Biodiversity Strategy Delivery Plan 2024-2030” includes a duty to

“implement the Scottish Plan for Invasive Non-Native Species ... Surveillance, Prevention and Control, and secure wider support measures to enable ... removal at scale.”

Therefore, that duty already exists. I am aware of the Orkney issue, but I need to take that away and look at whether it needs to be addressed in the bill or whether we already have the legal mechanisms to do that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

NatureScot said:

“We support changes. It does not make a lot of sense to us to have legislation that we cannot easily amend. Giving the power to change legislation in response to changing technologies, climate change and so on seems sensible to us.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs and Islands Committee, 28 May 2025; c 38.]

NatureScot is supportive of the power.

Our legal assessment is that we do not have the flexibility to be responsive enough to the changes that climate change, in particular, will cause to happen in our natural environment. We would not be putting the provision in—I would not be putting it in—if we had the ability through guidance to meet those objectives. This change and this part of the bill are there to allow us the flexibility to be adaptive and agile in a dynamic situation.

Unless there is any other legal advice that I can get from Stewart Cunningham on this, I am convinced that the power needs to be included in order to enhance biodiversity and allow us to be responsive to what is a literally changeable environment, particularly as a result of climate change. Having this bespoke provision for Scotland in the bill will give us that ability, which we do not currently have.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

We acknowledge that the bill’s provisions are not a replacement for the power in the European Communities Act 1972. The EIA and habitats legislation originated in EU law, which means that, as a result of our having exited the EU, we have lost that power. That has created a legislative gap that we think needs to be filled, and we do not believe that regulation 9D does that. As I said, using it would mean that we would end up with legislation that was frozen in time from the date of our EU exit.

If we required primary legislation every time that an amendment to EIA or habitats legislation was needed, however minor that change might be, that would be disproportionate and unworkable, and it is not an agile or responsive way to respond to critical and dynamically changing situations. That is why we want to be able to fill that legislative gap. We do not think that regulation 9D does that, and we think that the provision in part 2 of the bill does.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

The team is working on secondary legislation on targets; that work will not wait for royal assent and is already in train—we are looking at it. The words “agile” and “iterative” seem to be my catchphrases. That work is happening because we want—at the start of the next parliamentary session, I imagine—to be able to put the targets out for scrutiny.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

We do the consents aspect of that, but the regulation associated with it is reserved to the UK.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

It depends on which waters we are talking about.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

We have responsibilities for inshore waters.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, but, again, the issue is to do with the interoperability of the two regimes. At the moment, we are in a bit of a sweet spot with regard to alignment, because of the UK Government’s ambitions in that area. In addition, both Parliaments have net zero targets—ours is 2045 and the UK’s is 2050—so there has to be interoperability when it comes to how we achieve those.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Are you suggesting that Scotland should have responsibility for offshore as well as inshore waters?