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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 2934 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

I will let you all come in in due course.

One argument for the new system has been that it would bring more consistency. It has also been suggested that the system would become more like the NHS, which is a national organisation. However, it strikes me that the NHS can be quite inconsistent. All the health boards do things differently, every general practitioner practice seems to do things differently, and so does every dentist and optician, as they are all private. There is quite a mixture in the NHS. If we move to a national care service, will it be more consistent than what we have now, or will there simply be a different kind of inconsistency?

11:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Do we know how many care homes there are in Scotland? I assume that there must be hundreds.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Is there a wide variety of legal set-ups that we could have for the care boards?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

That means that the financial memorandum contains quite a lot of assumptions. As you work on and develop the bill, how will the Parliament and the committee be able to keep an eye on things? As has been pointed out, we will look at an FM in quite a lot of detail, but we do not often see much of the detail with regard to secondary legislation. How can the committee and the Parliament look at that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Would you provide that information, say, every quarter or when you reached a significant stage? Would you do that by updating the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

That has been included in the financial memorandum.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Thank you very much.

Another point raised by COSLA and others is that the present care service is funded partly by Government grants and partly by council tax and so forth. If, for example, a council spends £100 million on care services—I am just using round figures—£80 million of that will come from grants and £20 million will be raised locally through council tax. When the transfer happens, will the Government take the £80 million or the £100 million away from the council?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

The whole area of assets and borrowing could also be complex. CIPFA, I think, has raised the question whether—to take an obvious example—a care home that belonged to the council would transfer and, if so, what would happen with the borrowing. After all, most councils will have borrowed to finance such provision, although, in Glasgow, I think that a number of smaller care homes were got rid of in order to build some larger new ones. Would that sort of thing be taken on a case-by-case basis, too?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

It was not made by you; it was made in one of the submissions.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

The words “best value” have been used. It appears that £500 million to £1,000 million over the next five years will go into the structure of the new organisation. Is your argument that, if we have that kind of money sitting around, it is not best value to set up a new structure and that it would be better to use that money to increase wages or to improve the existing system?