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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 2934 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

As it happens, one of the Glasgow care homes is in Dalmarnock, which is in my constituency.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Is your understanding that the local council would decide whether it wanted to transfer a particular care home or other asset to the national care service, or would that be a decision for the national care service? How would that be decided?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

That is okay. My point is that, if we are looking at every individual care home for every council, the third sector and private sector, that will be a lot of work for somebody.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

I will move on. VAT has been mentioned. I do not know whether any of our finance experts can give us the background on that. Earlier, I tried to press the officials on whether they could work round the VAT or whether we are dependent on HMRC and Westminster to make decisions about it. I think that we ended up paying money in relation to the police and fire services, which we did not really want to do. Do you have an angle on VAT? Are you concerned about it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

The final area on which I will touch is what happens if the staff transfer. There was a suggestion in, I think, the CIPFA submission that some staff might not be able to transfer under TUPE.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

As the convener said, there is quite a lot in here. I understand the point that pay for care workers is not part of the bill and therefore not part of the financial memorandum, and that whether care workers get paid more is a completely different issue. However, the right for carers to breaks from caring is part of the bill. Therefore, should all the costs of that be in the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

I get the point about pay, terms and conditions, but surely the cost of breaks for carers is part of the bill.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

The convener mentioned VAT. You said that the UK Government or HM Revenue and Customs would take a decision on that and that you were aware of what was going on. I want to press you on that. Regardless of what HMRC decides to do, is it possible to design a set-up that will mean that we do not end up having to pay VAT? With the police and fire services, we got into a situation in which Westminster, or HMRC, was being inflexible and we ended up paying VAT, which we would not otherwise have had to pay. Is it possible for you to design a system whereby we will not have to pay VAT, regardless of what Westminster decides?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

Could you not rule out VAT being paid because we will design a system that fits in with what HMRC wants?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

John Mason

I will leave it at that, convener.