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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 2867 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

Thank you all for taking part and for your clear answers.

We will have a break and start again at 11 o鈥檆lock.

10:53 Meeting suspended.  

11:00&苍产蝉辫;翱苍&苍产蝉辫;谤别蝉耻尘颈苍驳鈥&苍产蝉辫;&苍产蝉辫;

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

Welcome back to the second half of our meeting this morning. We now continue our evidence taking on the Scottish Government鈥檚 public service reform programme. Today, we will hear from Claire Burden, the chief executive of NHS Ayrshire and Arran, whom I welcome to the committee. We were meant to also be hearing from a representative of the Argyll and Bute integration joint board, but they are unable to attend today. I apologise that you are in the spotlight, Claire, but I am sure that we will get on okay.

We have about an hour, but we do not have to use all that time鈥攚e will see how we get on.

We are looking at public service reform. Initially, we thought that the Government was going to have a very clear path for that; more recently, it has been more the case that each organisation will be looking at reform itself. Do you think that that works, or do we need a stronger steer from the Government about the kind of reform that it is looking for and where we should be going? Are you comfortable that your organisation and similar organisations can drive forward reform yourselves?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

You have mentioned a couple of times the number of people you have. The Argyll and Bute IJB is not here, but its population is 85,000, so it is an even smaller organisation.

Last week, we heard from the police, and they are obviously an example of a major reform in recent years. They went from eight police authorities, or whatever it was, down to just one. Making anything like that kind of change in the health service could not be done internally, could it? It would have to be driven by central Government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

Yes. The problem is that our borrowing limit is only 拢300 million. We will raise that with the Deputy First Minister next week.

You mentioned data. How are you finding it now for getting the data that you need at the time when you need it? I know that that was a problem in the past.

09:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

Thank you very much, Ms Burden. You have been very frank and open. Maybe it has been beneficial that you have not been in your job for a long time, as you have given us a fresh approach and been prepared to be honest with us. I am very grateful for your input this morning.

Is there anything else that you would like to say that we have not touched on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

One of the terms that we politicians hear from the public is 鈥減ostcode lottery鈥, which I personally detest and which I think really means local decision making. However, there needs to be a balance, does there not? When someone turns up with a broken leg, they get the same treatment in Ayrshire as they would in the Highlands, Glasgow or anywhere else. On the other hand, you are dealing with a particular situation: you have two islands, the Highlands are completely different from that, and Glasgow and Edinburgh are different, too.

How do we get that balance? The police model has become more centralised. Does health need to have a more centralised model?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

My final question was going to be aimed more at the health and social care partnership, but I will try it with you anyway. Your area covers three local authority areas. Is that a problem, does it not matter or is it a strength? We know that other health boards, such as NHS Fife, for example, pretty well match the local authority area. Is that an issue for you?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

Last week, we heard evidence on the information technology side, which was not just about health, that all sorts of public bodies are fishing in the same pool for IT experts. There seems to be a shortage. Has that been your experience?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

That opens up a discussion on preventative spend, which is a huge area on which the committee has already spent a lot of time. I will restrain myself on that point, though, and hand over to Michael Marra.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

John Mason

I have a final question. You said that, in future years, you do not anticipate any negative reconciliations or forecast errors after 2024-25. Why is that?