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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 September 2025
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Displaying 2904 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Delivering Scottish Social Security

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

John Mason

My question may be partly on the same theme. You wrote in your paper:

“It has been a story of high expectations bumping up against implicit, consequently rendered explicit, constraints”.

How many of the constraints are financial constraints? You have spoken quite a lot about bureaucracy, process and so on, but is one of the major constraints a lack of finance?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Delivering Scottish Social Security

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

John Mason

That is also helpful. Another comment that you make is:

“Despite such constraints on policy changes, Scottish Government has thankfully been able to diverge a long way from Westminster”.

Is that more about how we do things, rather than the actual content?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

John Mason

Another cost that has been mentioned is that of the information technology set-up. We all know that IT costs sometimes run out of control. An IT set-up cost of £50,000 has been suggested, with annual maintenance costs of only £7,000. Those figures seem quite low to me.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

John Mason

You have made the point that, even if a new council was set up and it recommended an expansion of who could receive benefits, that would not necessarily happen, for a variety of reasons, one of which relates to cost. If the council was set up and it recommended that more people should get benefits—more women, for example, or more people with other injuries or diseases, or perhaps stress—where would the budget come from? The fire service has been looking for support to deal with cancer-related issues, and there are teachers with stress and so on. This is not in the bill, but if the figure of £84 million, or £81 million, that has been mentioned were to double, would that be financially feasible?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

I ask Ms Somerville the same question—I was going to come to you anyway on that point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

Right. I will just pursue that point with Ms Somerville for a minute, and then I will come back to Mr McKenzie.

The STUC paper was very good on tax options and so on, but we still have a relatively fixed pot of money. Would you say that we could put more into the benefits system only if we raised more tax, or do you think that we should reallocate money? The national health service has a huge budget—we could take a bit out of there and put it into compensation.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

Would the proposed council help with that, or is that entirely a matter of employment law, which is reserved to Westminster?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

I will move on to finances. I do not know whether the witnesses heard some of the questions at the end of the previous evidence session. First, the financial memorandum gives the set-up costs as £149,000. I do not know whether any of you are IT experts, but that figure includes £50,000 for IT and website set-up. Do you think that that will be enough?

Similarly, the running costs are expected to be £372,000 per year. Paul O’Kane has already mentioned that research is less than 10 per cent of that, at £30,000, which seems quite a small amount. Do you have you any thoughts about those figures? Are they reasonable or unreasonable? Somebody said that IIAC is underresourced. Was that you, Ms Ritchie Allan?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

Assuming that SEIAC is set up and there is all that unmet demand out there, including in relation to women, football injuries and all the rest of it, will the amount of benefit that we pay out therefore inevitably increase?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

John Mason

I get your point that there might be savings to the health service in the long run, say, but, at the moment, we are considering a budget of something like £78 million in benefits. The Scottish Government does not have any spare money that I am aware of to pay for that. We could say, “Let’s take it off the NHS, as the health service will save in the long run.” Is it worth having the new council, however, if we are still stuck with paying that £78 million?