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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 2775 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

Merging SDS and the SFC was just a thought, following Bill Kidd’s question. You have made your point. That is fine.

One of the proposals in the bill is to give the Scottish Funding Council statutory powers to look at the financial sustainability of colleges and universities. I realise that none of you is in that space. However, do you have any comments about the proposal to give the SFC more power in that area? The SFC seems to have had that responsibility in the past but it did not pick up that Dundee university was getting into trouble.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

That point has been raised. What about the financial sustainability and the oversight of other training providers? Is it happening or is more needed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

Do you think there is a role for SDS or the SFC to oversee the system or to get more involved?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

Would you rather that I started with Mr Davenport?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

That is fine. The table on page 4 of the financial memorandum lists various figures and 2026-27 looks like being the most expensive year. The cost of the bill for that year is shown as being between £2.2 million and £4.3 million. First, I am interested in your thoughts on those figures. I know that we have already talked about the number of staff transferring, so that would be a factor.

Somewhat more scarily, the pension shortfall payment is shown as being between £1 million and £23 million. The financial memorandum does not even pretend that that is an estimate. It is meant to give an estimate but it gives only an “illustration”, as the authors call it. Can you give me your view on that? Then perhaps I will ask you about something else.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

I am sorry to keep interrupting you. You rightly say that pensions have already been touched on, but that is the figure that scares me the most because it is so big. My understanding of TUPE—and I have only a limited understanding—is that someone should not lose out when they transfer. They should be either the same or better off. I was a bit surprised by the suggestion that the pensions would be backdated as if the person had already been in the SFC for five or 10 years or whatever. Is that fixed or is that area uncertain?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

That is probably relatively smaller compared to the pension question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

John Mason

I could probably go on, but I will leave it at that. Thanks, convener.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

John Mason

I think that, when they do a bit of pre-budget scrutiny and report back, some committees wonder whether it really has an impact on the Government. However, linked to that, there is the idea that committees should look at financial matters throughout the year, which, I presume, would have an impact. Can you say something about the impact that committees are having on the Government in that regard?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

John Mason

I declare an interest in that I am a chartered accountant. I think that some of my colleagues charge by the hour.

I was going to draw a kind of comparison. A company’s accounts have to be audited, and I think that most people would say that, although auditors get it wrong at times, they are independent. However, the financial arrangements for companies are very different. There is a legal requirement for financial accounts to be submitted, usually within nine months or thereabouts, and audited. In the case of banks, the timeframe is even shorter than that. I come from that background and might be biased, but do you think that there is scope for an audit of a public inquiry? That would still be independent. You spoke about finding the balance between independence and controls. Could the legal side learn from the accountancy side?