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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 2775 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

Going back to the triangle of time, cost and quality that you mentioned, Ms Dunlop, we all understand the tension between those three things. For example, an inquiry might have been going for five years and give a fair picture of what has been happening. If it goes for another five years, we might get better quality but it is not that much better. Is there a balance to how far we go with quality? I said in my questions to the previous panel that people in other professions do the best that they can in the time available, but it is never perfect—whereas Lord Hardie wants to do a proper job.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

When the chair says no to that, is it because of their sense of personal responsibility, or is anyone going to ask the chair about those unnecessary costs later?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

Okay. There are a few different lines that we could go down at this stage.

Covid has been mentioned. Everyone here lived through Covid. My feeling is that we know about 95 per cent of what happened—the decisions that were made and roughly why they were made—and what we do not know about is relatively limited. I would have thought that the inquiry would focus on that bit, but the inquiries just seem to cover everything. Does that bring us back to the terms of reference, Ms Dunlop?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

But with regard to public inquiries, there could be divergence, if the legal profession was gaining from longer public inquiries and the public might be losing out.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

I suspect not, but that is my opinion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

You would not do it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

That is fair enough.

Lord Hardie, you used the word “proper” in your response. I wonder about other professions: for example, a general practitioner has to assess somebody in 10 minutes. I accept that that is far too short. I am an accountant—accountants have to audit a company in, say, nine months. People in most professions—and in other jobs as well, such as the cleaner of this room—have a time limit and are expected to produce not a perfect result, but the best that they can, within that time limit. Would that not be a better model?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

Okay. Dr Ireton, I will ask you the same question: is the inquiry process too legal?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

I suppose that that ties into the rule in the legislation about avoiding “unnecessary cost”. That is quite a subjective term, is it not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

John Mason

Preventing a recurrence is impossible, is it not?