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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 June 2025
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Displaying 2810 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

Right. The SPF makes the point that

“it seems grossly unfair that those in higher ranks who are also higher earners are having their financial costs paid ... yet the federated ranking officers are having to pay for their defence either personally or through their professional subscriptions.”

Is there an inconsistency there?

10:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

Would it be part of the medium-term financial strategy, or is it a completely separate thing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

Okay. Perhaps you could just clarify something for me. One of the phrases that is used a few times is “balanced pathway scenario”. I am sure that everybody else understands it, but I do not. Will you clarify what a balanced pathway scenario is? Is it a CCC term?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

Are you saying that the figure is not based on ownership, but on an estimate of where the expenditure would come from?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

That is what I was wondering, because a lot of private owners would not be able to afford very much investment.

A lot of the report is looking at additional investment. However, we are already spending quite a lot on, for example, agriculture, with the replacement for the common agricultural policy. How does that interact here? Is that a factor? That money is already going out, but we can tweak it a bit as to how it is used.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

How do the costs vary because of that? Would the cost for Police Scotland or for the individual officer be different and would the costs be handled differently, depending on whether the person is in the service or has left?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

It is a good example and others should follow it. The idea of having very precise figures—going down to £134 or £474—is just unrealistic, frankly. Some of the figures are clearly rounded—the SPA potential costs of £259,000, for example. The committee might disagree with me, but I think that that is the right way to do it. When it comes to a figure with £134 at the end, I would just drop the £134, because there is no way that anyone can be that accurate when they are making such forecasts. That is just my comment by way of support.

In paragraph 30 on page 9, for different organisations, you compare £10,000 materiality as a percentage of their annual budgets, which comes in at 0.001 per cent and suchlike. Would it be better to show the materiality as a percentage of the actual costs of the bill, which would be something like 2 per cent in some cases? Would that be more helpful?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

One of which, at least, is an immaterial saving, is that right? It sets off some of the others.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

At any level?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

John Mason

That is interesting.

Finally, paragraph 107 of the financial memorandum, on page 23, talks about the PIRC making

“recommendations to the Chief Constable”.

That is under the heading “Unknown indirect costs”, so there is a lot of uncertainty in that respect. It would depend on what those costs were. The memorandum goes on to state:

“If there is a cost in implementing the recommendation then this indirect cost cannot be quantified.”

Can you give any examples of that? What might the PIRC recommend? Is it just that the variations are so wide that you cannot put a figure on it?