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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 853 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

Can I give you a specific date? No. Is the date relatively imminent? Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

If that were to be the case, that would be a concern.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

That remains a work in progress, but we will be happy to write to the committee with as much detail as we can provide.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I think that it is explainable. We have explained why it is necessary, but I entirely recognise the disappointment and concern that have been expressed by both the colleges and the universities over the impact.

The cabinet secretary and I met Colleges Scotland principals and chairs last week. We also met the Colleges Scotland union representatives on the same day, and we met Universities Scotland. We have had some detailed discussions about this, and they have expressed their concerns—I understand those concerns entirely—but, particularly in the context of colleges, we are already attempting to move on from this jointly and to determine how we can support the colleges into a more sustainable position going forward. We are having and will have similar conversations with the universities.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not think that our language around it has been of that nature. We have just tried to be open and transparent about what has led to this decision.

It is regrettable that we are not in a position to provide the additional money to colleges and universities that we had indicated that we would—that is what we wanted to do—but this is the reality that we are operating in, and we have to deal with the situation as it exists.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

As I have seen, as a member of the committee and then up close as a minister, the industrial relations are not at all good. There have been disputes in eight of the past nine years. Having spoken to both sides, I think that we need to find some way of addressing that. The committee expressed a view on that previously and I share that view.

The universities are in a slightly different set-up in that the industrial dispute is United Kingdom-wide. There is a pay offer, which has been rejected. I have had conversations directly with Universities Scotland on specific issues that are happening in Scotland and I have sought to encourage it to engage constructively with the UCU to try to resolve the matter.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not think that the First Minister shot it down, as you put it; he was just clear that the Scottish Government’s position is that that is a red-line issue for us. Sir Peter is perfectly entitled to express his view. As you will know, he was very clear that he wanted a calm discussion and that it was all about taking a limited approach, but unfortunately in some quarters his view was portrayed as being that he wanted to reintroduce tuition fees, which is not what he was saying at all.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

However, that does not mean that we agree with him—we do not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I think that I was stating a fact. It is not about the ÂŁ26 million.

I am not comfortable that people are facing the prospect of losing their jobs—I am not at all comfortable with that—but, with respect, Ms Duncan-Glancy, I point out that we have already heard about the budgetary challenges that are being faced. If the committee or anyone else wants to say, as they are entitled to, that more money should be put into colleges, they will need to tell us where that money will come from.

This was partly the issue with the teachers’ pay settlement. Everybody understandably wanted the then education secretary to settle that dispute, but she made it very clear that, for that to happen, the money would have to come from somewhere else. Regrettably, we do not have an endless pot of money, and a flat-cash settlement was as good as could be achieved, given the budget pressures that the Government is facing. As I keep saying, I regret the consequences for the colleges and for staff.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

Mr Kerr, as usual, there is lots of hyperbole and all that.