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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 853 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

As you well know, Mr Rennie, I am always advocating for universities, colleges and apprenticeships with some degree of passion. I was simply weighing out an answer to the convener’s question. Of course I want more money for all those things, but I am in a similar position to the committee. You are the Education, Children and Young People Committee and you have to look at the overall picture in education. I am sure that you are cognisant of the fact that if, out of this process, you called for more money for colleges, universities, apprenticeships or all of them, that would have to come from somewhere. We are in the same position with the education budget.

I am not in any way a bystander in the matter. I advocate strongly for all those interests. I just recognise that the situation is not entirely within our control, so I cannot rule anything out or in at this stage.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

Anecdotally, I hear the same thing from businesses and colleges, and I am not going to deny that. I said earlier that we tried, wherever possible, to target redistribution of money within the budget—or cuts; whatever term you want to use—on demand-led budget lines, but that is not always possible. Unfortunately, those funds were two examples of where it was not possible to avoid a situation that I would rather have avoided. It would be good to be in a position to reinstate one fund, if not both, but we are—unfortunately—not in that position at the moment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

We are aware of the situation that exists “down south”, as you term it. We are aware that some colleges are facing more considerable challenges than others. The Scottish Funding Council is across that situation and is providing assistance.

I do not think that there is an immediate issue, but we are working with all colleges and universities to ensure that they have a sustainable future.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

You have been keeping tabs on me, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

That is a projection based on this year. Stuart Greig can explain the basis of that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

I am aware of what you are referring to. There was a reference in a document to that possibility, or that risk. We will monitor that risk.

At this stage, I am not seeing any anecdotal evidence of there being a problem, but we will monitor that because the agenda is hugely important for us. I have acknowledged today that there is a threat to the 2026 target. However, the biggest threat would come from being restricted to using one measure. When we embarked on this agenda, we took that approach with good intent, but the experience of our universities shows that we need something else, or that we need multiple things, and that how we facilitate that matters. The pilot in your area is a good example of that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

I absolutely accept that higher education finances are not as I would want them to be. I could trade reasons with you about why we are in that situation. We are working closely with the universities to determine what opportunities there are to further enhance their access to public funding to mitigate that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

Having the power to investigate seems to be a reasonable ask.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

We cannot apply that retrospectively. College principals, like all other employees, have rights, which are protected.

I think we can outline a future expectation. I understand people’s unease about the characterisation that you have just made about the levels of some salaries and packages in the sector.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 4 September 2024

Graeme Dey

That is a pressure for next year, convener.