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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 August 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Willie Rennie

I am staggered by the admission that, somehow, those who work in the PVI sector are worth less, even though they are supposedly doing exactly the same job. I have some examples of pay rates. In Falkirk, a local authority head of centre is paid 71 per cent more than their private nursery manager equivalent, despite working fewer hours. In Glasgow, a deputy head of nursery is paid 87 per cent more than a deputy nursery manager in the PVI sector. Are you surprised that there is an exodus of staff from the PVI sector?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Willie Rennie

Yes. I am sorry—you have got the tough job today in having to defend this.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

I want to challenge your claim that things were getting better before the pandemic. In a number of indicators that I have looked at, the gap has widened. The gap in S3 literacy widened from 13.6 per cent to 13.8 per cent between 2016 and 2018. In the achievement of level 4 of the Scottish credit and qualifications framework, the gap widened from 6.5 per cent to 7.1 per cent between 2018 and 2019. The gap in the achievement of level 6 widened from 35 to 36 points in 2018-19. That was all before the pandemic, so why do you say that things were getting better?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

I do not want to go into what comes next; I want to focus on how we got here. You have addressed the fact that the attainment gap exists elsewhere, but I want to know why it exists here and why the rest of the OECD report, which covered a whole lot of other areas in education as well, was so critical. Do we understand how we got here?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

I accept all of that, but we are in—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

I am interested in how we got here. What is your assessment of why the poverty-related attainment gap was so wide and why we got such a critical report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development back in 2015? What are the root causes of that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

There are several sections.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

But we are in politics to improve things, are we not? That is why we are here. If we just keep going on about the positive things, we will not make any progress. We need to identify why things were going wrong in the many areas that the OECD highlighted. Do you understand why that was?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

The reason why I am asking the question is that I have never heard any Government minister explain what went wrong. They always leap immediately to apparent solutions—and to quite radical solutions in some areas. It is quite a departure from past practice to have significant funds invested in addressing the poverty-related attainment gap, but nobody has ever explained to me what went wrong in the first place, and you have not been able to do so today. You have immediately leapt towards solutions. I do not think we will make any progress on that, but I would like you to reflect on it, because I think we need to understand what went wrong if we are going to fix it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Willie Rennie

But it was going backwards. It was not as though more progress needed to be made. Progress was not being made in the indicators that I just listed. Why are you selectively quoting the ones that have seen some improvement—albeit not big improvements but tiny margins? There is still a big poverty-related attainment gap of 35 points at level 6. These gaps are enormous and we are making infinitesimal improvements. If we are going to spend £1 billion, surely you would expect something a bit better than this.