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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

No, that makes sense. We do not really know what the national care service will look like, because the bill is a framework bill and the co-design stuff has not been worked up.

What I am puzzled by is that not every part of children鈥檚 services would be transferred, as Michael Marra identified in a previous evidence session. Bits of children鈥檚 services would still be provided by bodies other than the national care service. Surely that means that we would just be changing the line rather than solving the problem, as not everything would be put under one employer. Surely, we would still have the same problems. They would just involve different people in different places. Does that make sense?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

I am sorry鈥攊t was probably a wee bit convoluted. What I am really asking about is wider change. What wider change do we need in the system? Do we need better leaders or more money? What do you need us to do? The fact is that we are not getting any clarity on what exactly the Parliament and Government should be doing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

I am a bit confused, because you have provided a very coherent explanation as to why, under the current set-up, we should reject the inclusion of children鈥檚 services, but you said earlier that you are in favour of including children鈥檚 services.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Thank you for clearing that up.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Basically, are you saying, then, that you do not feel that we have your back in making some of these judgments or that politicians and the Government do not back you up in making such difficult decisions?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Why is that voice for early intervention not stronger? We have debated that question for years. Why has it not gotten to where you would like it to get? What is stopping it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

We have got to the nub of the issue about what the barriers to progress are. I think that everybody apart from Vicky Irons accepts that there are problems, but they do not want children鈥檚 services to be included in the national care service. The problem that Vicky identified relates to having two employers, two systems and two cultures. I would like to hear from her how that manifests itself and what it means for the recipients of the services.

I would also like to hear from Highland Council whether it has overcome the problem of having two employers through the way that it has organised its services.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Would any of those problems be solved by the inclusion of children鈥檚 services in the national care service? Vicky Irons believes that they would, but does anybody else agree?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

That is not what I asked. Would the problems that have been identified by Highland Council and Dundee health and social care partnership be solved by the inclusion of children鈥檚 services in the national care service? I know that there are other potential benefits, but that is not what I am asking about.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Willie Rennie

You highlight the fact that, of course, you are all talking about change鈥擬ike Burns just talked about trying to up the spend on prevention versus other spend鈥攁nd you are constantly changing, but is it structural change that staff are crying out for?