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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

That makes my point for me—I am sorry to interrupt, Mr Stewart. You are making this up as you go along.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

You are already deciding that you will have a big disruption, with a new law to create a national care service, but without even deciding what is going to be in the national care service. That is making it up as you go along.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

You are not looking at the whole system, though, are you? You have already decided that you are creating a national care service, which will have ramifications for children’s services. You are not considering services in the round. You have decided that you will take one part out of the system, and you will then decide, as an afterthought, what children’s services are going to do in response to that disruption.

So, you are not looking at things in the round. You have talked an awful lot this morning about co-design. If, in the co-design process—which will presumably include the recipients of services as well as those who provide them—it is decided that it would be better to leave the structure as it is, are you going to undo all this?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Not this.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Well, that is clearly not the case.

Can you tell me how much this will cost? What will the additional cost be for restructuring the service to include children’s services? What will be the cost of including children’s services?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

So what is the figure?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Willie Rennie

I just want the cost of the restructure.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Jude Currie summed it up neatly when she referred to change for change’s sake, and both Jude Currie and Martin Crewe have clearly expressed that there are issues and that change is required but that structural change does not necessarily deliver the change that we require. I will play devil’s advocate, although I agree with everything about that because we have had several evidence sessions that have made it clear that the structure is a diversion from the real challenges that we face. I have heard about leadership and resources from Jude. I would like to have a better understanding of what that actually looks like, what change we require to make those services better, and then what we need to do about it.

Other committee members have, not unreasonably, highlighted the fact that the view of some was, “Just leave us alone and we’ll get on with it and deliver the change.” I do not necessarily agree with that, because everybody accepts that change is required. However, I will play devil’s advocate and challenge you both to say what we need to change and what politicians need to do to help with that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Does it make no difference to those who receive the service?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Willie Rennie

Yes, but does it make any difference to the people who receive the service?