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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 August 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Willie Rennie

When we visited a secure unit, we saw that good relationships had been built with local health providers as a result of the good efforts of staff. However, there were sometimes issues when individuals came from health boards outside the area. Continuity of care was an issue. The connections, the good service and the integration were mainly down to the good will of staff, and there is no guarantee that that will always be the case. Will you consider the possibility of the NHS providing direct support to ensure that things are more co-ordinated and seamless in the future?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Willie Rennie

Right.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Willie Rennie

No, I can conclude on this point. It is connected with the question about what additional resource will be required to provide the extra places in the secure units. Minister, you have indicated the scale of the issue, but have you done calculations of what will be required in the secure units?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Willie Rennie

Okay鈥攖hat is fine.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Willie Rennie

People have expressed to me the view that going through all the second-best options, as they consider them to be, sometimes does more damage when a period in secure care would be of benefit and would allow the child to transition back. Are we taking an extreme position by trying to follow what you have set out, or are you pretty sure about what you have said?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Willie Rennie

That helps a lot.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Willie Rennie

We have covered some of my points in discussing whether the secure units are fit for purpose for the new cohort, but I want to explore them a little bit more.

We have done a number of visits and have found it striking that the understanding between Polmont and the secure units is pretty limited; they do not exchange much with each other. A bit of learning and understanding about what each of them provides and, therefore, how the transition can be managed is needed. That fits in with what we have talked about. It is not that new for some units that deal with young people who are in this cohort. Nevertheless, there needs to be an understanding.

One issue that has come out is health services. When we went to Polmont, we saw that the national health service is part of it; it is almost a statutory service inside it. People there therefore have the best when they need it, immediately, and without long waits to get mental health support, for instance. However, that is not the case in the secure units. They are able to get such services where good personal relationships have been built up with local health boards, but it is not guaranteed. Do we need to address that in the bill or otherwise? Should it cover not only the health service but other areas?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Willie Rennie

That issue was certainly raised, so you are more up to date than you think.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Willie Rennie

Secure care has been considered to be the last resort, but some people expressed the view that, in some cases, we go round the houses on every other option and eventually end up choosing secure care when secure care should have been the first option. Are we getting the balance right in relation to secure care being the option of last resort? Does that make sense?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Willie Rennie

This is a question for Alison Gough. You have said some quite strong things about the children鈥檚 hearings system and about attitudes in the justice system. Could you elaborate on that and say how widespread you think those issues are?