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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Willie Rennie

I suppose that there is a difference between having the right to remain in post and exercising leadership and making a decision about whether you should remain in that post, given the groundswell of demand for change. There is a difference between the two, but I will not ask you to go any further than that.

I want to put on the record that a whole range of organisations have expressed very strong views. Many local authority education officers and heads of education have commented. West Dunbartonshire Council said that

“a wholesale transfer of personnel to Qualifications Scotland would undermine the reform process.”

Inverclyde Council said that

“the same people will still be involved leading to … the same approach by another name.”

Moray Council asks:

“How will the current system be different with the same people leading in senior roles?”

Lots of other organisations are responding in that way. How do you view those responses? Will they affect the decisions that you and your team will make going forward?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Willie Rennie

You have described the circumstances very well, but you have not given me your view. Do you feel uncomfortable that the accreditation part, which assesses the functions of other parts of the body, will sit within the same organisation? Are you comfortable with that? Has there ever been a moment when you have thought, “This should be separate. This should not be with me; it should be with another organisation”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Willie Rennie

That is very helpful. Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Willie Rennie

This is quite a difficult set of questions, because we are talking about people’s jobs and livelihoods. Laurence Findlay and Graham Hutton, I was pleased to hear that your experience is that the SQA has attempted to change, and that you have seen some of the benefits of that. However, Graham, you indicated that a change of personnel will still be needed. I will be direct. Should the chair and chief executive of the SQA be the chair and chief executive of qualifications Scotland?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

I have a brief question about the separation of the accreditation function. It seems to me that the Government—you will have had discussions with it—is resistant to creating additional public bodies. You believe that, if the responsibility was given to Education Scotland, it would be too close to Government, which would be subject to criticism. Is there another body that the accreditation function could sit alongside? Perhaps the inspectorate could house the body. Have you had any further thoughts about the practicalities of where it could go?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

I have one final question. According to the cabinet secretary—I am paraphrasing what she says—there is enough going on in the education system, such as additional support needs, violent behaviour, distress, and absence from school, and that perhaps big-bang reforms now would not be appropriate. Do you agree with that?

10:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

Professor Donaldson, you indicated earlier that the pace of change was much faster than other people thought and that it needed to be much faster than 10 years. However, later on, you said that doing reform without any money is not advisable. How do you square those two things?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

What should the cabinet secretary announce tomorrow in her statement?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

One last question—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

Willie Rennie

Would you have any objection to the function going into the inspectorate?