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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 December 2025
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Displaying 6583 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

I did not interrupt you, so please do not interrupt me, because that will not start us off on the right foot.

The RECC report says that

“Transport Scotland and CMAL applied inadequate due diligence in scrutinising and signing off the ... process”

and that “Insufficient due diligence” was undertaken. Those words are all in the report.

We are talking about a project that was due to cost £97 million but which is probably going to end up costing £0.5 billion. Forgive me if I do not understand why the people of Scotland should not find that of due concern, when your organisation was overseeing the contract. Explain to me why they should not.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

I totally agree with you. One of the things that the report mentions is transparency. We know that two of the vessels are going to cost £111 million. I would like to know, for example, whether you have addressed the issue of staged payments. Have you addressed all the other points that were made in the RECC report? When we ask for that information, we are told that is commercially sensitive, so we cannot have it. Therefore, it is very difficult for people to scrutinise the process and understand whether there has been change.

Maybe we should leave that issue there, but I would say that looking forward is about learning from history so that you do not repeat the same mistake.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

We now move to questions from Mark Ruskell.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

That might become quite relevant when we come to our report. We might have to prompt you, as we get to concluding the report, for any advice that you can give us.

Mark Ruskell wanted to ask some questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you for clarifying.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much. I point out to members that, if they want to put a question directly to an individual, it is absolutely appropriate for them to do so. If one of the witnesses wants to come in, they should indicate so with their hand and I will bring them in as best I can. I want the evidence session to be as free flowing as possible, and I want to allow members to ask questions of the people who they think are most appropriate to answer them. I am not overriding Morag McNeill; I am just giving committee members some guidance.

If I start wagging my pen at you—which is a Christine Grahame trick—it means that I want you to try to keep your answers a little shorter, on the basis that we have quite a lot of questions to ask. My pen has never flown out of my fingers when I have been wagging it before, but that will be my indication rather than telling people to stop talking, which I do not think is helpful.

The first questions come from the deputy convener, Fiona Hyslop.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

To build on that question, we have heard from some islanders that they believe that the contracts are fairly strait-laced and cannot be changed and that, if there was evidence of the ability to change them, we would have seen that in lots of letters that suggest changes and changes to the contracts that have been approved. On that basis, we asked CalMac last week whether there was lots of evidence of contract changes, and it said that there were none that it had requested. I am now confused. You are saying that it is fleet of foot and that there is the ability to change, but CalMac says that it is not.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Having heard from islanders that there were not changes, it would be helpful to the committee to be able to say that we have seen evidence of changes.

Just before the meeting last week, we got some information from CalMac. It gave reasons for cancelled sailings by cause. I did not understand what force majeure within its own control meant; such a definition is completely beyond me. CalMac says that the Scottish Government approved the cancellation of 1,551 sailings last year but could not give a reason for that. Do you want to give a reason for that? If you are cancelling that amount of sailings, islanders may be a little concerned.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

I would not want to set a precedent.

We move on now to item 3, which is formal consideration of the motion.

Motion moved,

That the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee recommends that the Renewables Obligation (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023 [draft] be approved.—[Michael Matheson]

Motion agreed to.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

I welcome Jenny Gilruth, Minister for Transport—thank you for joining us, minister. I also welcome from Transport Scotland Laurence Kenney, head of ferries policy, and Chris Wilcock, head of ferries unit.

Before we begin, I believe that the minister would like to make a brief opening statement.