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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 5980 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

There will be a division.

For

Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Against

Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

The result of the division is: For 2, Against 5, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 105 disagreed to.

Amendment 106 not moved.

Amendment 107 moved—[Bob Doris].

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

The result of the division is: For 2, Against 5, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 417 disagreed to.

Amendment 348 not moved.

11:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Before I come to the cabinet secretary, I will say that, as a farmer, I am not frightened of producing a land management plan—I am very happy to do it. However, I want to point out some of the problems that farmers face in drawing up a land management plan. As a farmer, I have no idea what I will be doing in two years’ time. I have no idea what the Government wants me to do with the subsidy system in two years’ time. If my landholding was big enough to have a land management plan, I could not come up with one, because I do not know whether the cattle that I have would be something that the Government wants. The Climate Change Committee is talking about a reduction of 33 per cent in cattle numbers, which means that I might not be able to have those cattle. I do not have sheep but, if I did, I might not be able to have those sheep. Although I have barley, I might not even know whether distilleries want the barley in two years’ time. It is very difficult to come up with a land management plan for five years.

I see that Monica Lennon wants to come in, but I will take Mr Ruskell first.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

I call Tim Eagle to speak to amendment 407 and any other amendments in the group.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Experience has taught me that, when a landowner signs up to a land management plan, if there is criticism of their objectives and actions, bodies such as NatureScot—Scottish Natural Heritage, as was—run for the hills rather than supporting the land management plan that they signed up to. A land management plan has to work both ways. Once it is signed up and agreed to, it must be supported not only by the landowner, who has developed it in conjunction with the community, but by the community that signed up to it taking part in it and the Government bodies that have asked for it. It needs to be progressive.

The committee heard views on the costings of land management plans. We heard from one witness who suggested that it might cost £60,000 to produce a land management plan, but we thought that that was particular to a specific area, and that land management plans would be graduated in cost. We also heard from two land agents who suggested that £10,000 to £15,000 for a 1,000-hectare estate farm would be relevant.

My concern is that the level of community engagement that might be required is still not bottomed out. Maybe that is something for stage 3. Community engagement can take a considerable amount of time. I gave the example of Glen Prosen. Three years after the Scottish Government purchased it for the people of Scotland, we still do not have a land management plan for it, because community engagement is occurring. It might appear in the next week as a result of this conversation, but I doubt it. It is going to take a considerable amount of time.

I would like to see more bottoming out of the idea, and I would like to work with the cabinet secretary on what community engagement means. If we can get community engagement right, and resolve the issue of the depth of and requirements in the land management plan, they should not necessarily frighten people who are taking part.

I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could wind up and perhaps agree with everything that I have said—but maybe she will not.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

It is up to you, Mr Eagle, whether you want to take an intervention, but your enthusiasm may preclude it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

There will be a division.

For

Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Against

Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

I ask Tim Eagle to speak to amendment 418 and any other amendments in the group.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 10 June 2025

Edward Mountain

That is correct, and local place plans were also raised at some stages during our evidence.