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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 August 2025
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Displaying 2298 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Were you worried about what was in those draft papers, so you did not want them to go to the university executive group?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

If it happened once, you would not be happy, but it happened again and again. I am sorry, but I do not believe that you constantly asked for those papers. You accepted that they were never going to come to your group. Why did they not come? Just be honest and tell us.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

That is probably the furthest that you have gone in more than two and a half hours of evidence. I wonder why it has taken us that long to get that amount of contrition from you.

The reason that I made that particular point about how often that phrase is repeated in the report is because, throughout your evidence today, you have tried to blame the information that you were provided with. You have said that you were not given the proper facts and figures to see those issues occurring on the horizon, to stop them from happening or to deal with them promptly.

However, Gillies says, a dozen times, that you could have been, should have been or were aware. How do you respond to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Pamela Gillies says that in the light of all the evidence that was provided, and in the light of seeing what you were provided with by finance teams, by interim and full finance directors, by your chief operating officer and by your deputy vice chancellor.

Pamela Gillies knew all the information that you were provided with, and she still says, a dozen times, that you, as the principal, should have, could have and would have been aware of those things, but you are telling us today that, on many of those occasions, you were not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

The auditors certainly understood, because it took them days to reject what you said.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

You were not there to do that. The financial statement had already been written and printed off, and you were scribbling all over it to make it seem more positive and to make it look as though you were running a university that was profitable and doing well, when you were not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

It is good to get on the record the fact that you relied mainly on them, because, overnight, we were provided with information from a current member of the court. They apologised for getting the document to us so late, but it had just come into their hands.

The document contains your handwritten amendments to the financial statements of 2023-24—I have them here in front of me. That makes me query why you were getting so involved. Why were you making handwritten amendments to the financial statements, given that you have just told us, seconds ago, that you relied so heavily on the finance director and the team around the finance director?

I will elaborate. There is a sentence in the statement that says that there was an

“overall adverse impact resulting in an operational deficit”.

That is what was written but, in your handwritten note, you wanted that changed to say that there was a “small operational deficit”.

Another element says that the university’s 2024 financial performance was “adverse to budget”. Your handwritten note wanted that changed to say that the university’s financial performance was

“comparatively strong compared to much of the sector”,

in what had been a turbulent year, but, nonetheless, it was adverse to the budget.

You do not have training and you rely heavily on your finance team, but you wanted to paint a brighter picture by changing the statement. The auditor rejected it—your handwritten amendments did not pass muster.

Why were you trying to do that? To go back to what Pamela Gillies said about your character, you always tried to present too bright a picture.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Yes. Did you write handwritten notes on much of the financial—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

You did, because they did not appear.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 26 June 2025

Douglas Ross

That is not the view from this side, anyway. You have—