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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1956 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I said that I would come back to the witnesses on a number of points, but you have all given quite comprehensive answers, and we are starting to go into areas that other members want to ask about, so I will go to the other members and then maybe come back in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Welcome back. We will continue taking evidence on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill, and I welcome our second panel: Sarah Dalrymple, founder and director of SDC-Learn; Stephanie Lowe, deputy chief executive, Scottish and Northern Ireland Plumbing Employers Federation; and Phiona Rae, head of administration and finance, Tullos Training. Phiona Rae is appearing virtually.

I will kick off the questions. You might have heard the discussion that we had with the previous panel—indeed, I have asked this question of every panel on the bill. Is there a problem that the bill is seeking to address? Is the bill the right answer to that problem? We will start with Sarah Dalrymple.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Jon Vincent, we were told that, apparently, colleges were the culprits.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

How does the Government respond when you put that point to it? Does it see this as more of a priority than sorting out—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

The Funding Council was trying to reassure us that apprenticeships would be protected, because they have very separate and specific budgets. Is that not contrary to what you have just said?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Okay. Thank you very much.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Forgive me, but how much less? What are we looking at?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

What does that picture look like? Describe what it would have looked like five years ago compared to now, because of budget impacts.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Good morning, and welcome to the 16th meeting in 2025 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The main item on our agenda is continuation of evidence taking on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I welcome the first of our two panels of witnesses: Jon Vincent, the principal of Glasgow Clyde College, who is representing Colleges Scotland; Sir Paul Grice, the interim convener of Universities Scotland; Andrew Ritchie, the lead officer for the Developing the Young Workforce programme at Aberdeenshire Council, who is representing the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland’s sub-group on foundation apprenticeships; and Sai Shraddha Suresh Viswanathan, the president of the National Union of Students Scotland. Thank you all for joining us.

I will kick off with the question that I have asked the two previous panels of witnesses. What is the problem that the bill is seeking to address and rectify, and is the bill the answer to that problem?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Before I go to Bill Kidd, I wonder whether, given everything that you have just said, employers are actually aware of the bill. Are they raising concerns with you? Are they waiting to see the bill’s final shape and whether it becomes law? What awareness is out there of what we are discussing here today? Is a lot of the onus on you, as representatives, to do the heavy lifting now and then employers will just deal with whatever they have to deal with?