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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 430 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

Yes, I agree. You are right: I could give you tens of examples of where that is done well across the country, but the question is whether it is being done more systemically. This might sound like a perverse thing to say in the middle of a global pandemic, but there is an opportunity to fundamentally shift how we do that work.

Community link workers and the 1,000 mental health and wellbeing workers whom we have committed to providing by 2026, so that every GP practice has access to them, are key. They already play an excellent role. I have a really good relationship with the community link worker in my constituency. They are invaluable, given the connections that they provide to various community initiatives, cultural programmes, art programmes and art therapies. The trust that GPs have in that community link worker is heart warming and evident to see.

We have to do two things. First, we need to invest in community link workers and mental health and wellbeing workers. Secondly, we need to think about how we ensure that such work is a continual thread throughout our recovery process鈥擜ngus Robertson and I spoke about that at a recent engagement鈥攁nd I am very open minded about how that could be done. The paradigm shift will come from the community link workers plus the additional mental health and wellbeing workers whom we have committed to providing.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

Having had a conversation yesterday with the screening team, I know that the position in Scotland is different from the position in, for example, England and Wales. Therefore, we are looking to see how we can quickly resume the self-referral process. I hope to do that and to be able to say something more on that in the coming weeks. We must bear in mind that allowing self-referral for those aged 71 and over could cause slippage between screening cycles for those in the 50 to 70 category, but we might judge that the benefit of allowing that self-referral outweighs that risk. That is the conversation that we are having and which I had yesterday with the breast cancer screening team.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

I agree with that. I acknowledge that Brian Whittle has a long-standing interest in that area and has advocated for a preventative model of healthcare. A preventative approach is incredibly important. Many years after the Christie commission, we invest heavily in that space, but we could definitely do more.

Education can play a role in prevention, as can social prescribing, which we are looking to expand. I mentioned the community link workers that we have in place. We have also committed to providing 1,000 additional mental health support workers, whom every GP practice in Scotland can access for assistance with social prescribing. The ability to do that is incredibly important.

Sport plays a huge role in that respect. I recently had a really good meeting with the Scottish Football Association on how we can use Scotland鈥檚 most-loved sport, and the grass-roots network of football clubs across the country, more strategically to address some of our health aims as we move forward. We are doing a lot in that space, but there is plenty more that we could do.

Brian Whittle is correct to say that there is an opportunity, although it comes from tragic circumstances, to improve our public health outcomes.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

I did not know that.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

I would like to see an increase in face-to-face consultations, but as part of a hybrid model. That is where I agree with Dr Buist, Dr Shackles and many others who represent GPs and GP services. I do not think that anybody, including anybody round the table, would suggest that GPs have not been working hard throughout the pandemic. They have.

We need to make improvements on data. I know that committee members asked questions about that during the inquiry. We are working on a project to get better data extraction from primary care. I have seen the first cut of that data extract, but it needs to be quality assured and so forth. I promise the committee that it will be published as soon as it has gone through that appropriate process. However, the first cut of the data is unsurprising in that it shows that GPs are working incredibly hard, but as part of a hybrid model.

I think that that hybrid model should remain. I contacted my GP a number of months ago, and it was much more convenient for me to be able to telephone, have a video consultation and pick up my eczema cream at the pharmacist. That saved me a journey to the GP鈥檚 clinic and the time that would have been involved in that. We want to see an increase in face-to-face appointments, but as part of a hybrid model.

What Murdo Fraser hears anecdotally from his constituents and what I hear anecdotally from mine is also something that I hear from nurses in admission wards in acute hospitals, for example. There is more to do to increase the number of face-to-face appointments, but we have to recognise that GP practices are still operating under really difficult infection prevention and control conditions.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

I am happy to do that. Again, though, I would highlight page 18 of the strategy, which refers to a national digital platform. As you have rightly pointed out, we are not talking about a single product but about a collaborative and integrated approach to delivering cloud-based digital components that will allow us to share data in a way that we might not have been able to thus far. I am certainly more than happy to have that discussion offline, Mr Whittle, if you wish.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

You should say that, through the Government鈥檚 funding arrangements, we will see a step change. I am certain of that. Dentists will still have to operate within the IPC constraints, so they will not be able to see as many people as they saw before the pandemic. Before omicron, activity levels in dental practices were beginning to rise, and as a result of the new funding arrangements that incentivise and reward NHS activity, those levels will rise even more.

It might be worth asking Professor Leitch whether he has anything to add, given his expertise in dentistry.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

Yes, I will. I am somewhat surprised by the comment, because I meet the Royal College of Emergency Medicine regularly. I think that Dr Thomson gave evidence to you. I have met him in the past, and those meetings helped to inform our strategy. No doubt, that is why he welcomed it. A lot of the issues that he raised with me are core components of it. Of course, as we say in the strategy, it is an iterative document that will continue to develop and evolve as we make our way through the pandemic and into recovery.

Of course, I will meet the RCEM, as I do regularly. We consulted a number of stakeholders. I take on board what the RCEM said yesterday. The royal college can be assured that I am keen to meet with it early doors to get its further thoughts on our workforce strategy.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

You are right, of course, to couch that question in terms of those pressures. I hope that I am not speaking out of turn by saying that, in the conversations that my officials and I have had with health boards this week, many of them gave us the consistent message that they feel that this week is probably the toughest week that they have faced in the course of the pandemic.

We have not had today鈥檚 numbers of those in hospital with Covid鈥攖hey have not been published yet鈥攂ut yesterday鈥檚 number was just under 2,000, and we can add to that a high level of delayed discharge. Yesterday, I talked to the Glasgow health and social care partnership, which is unable to discharge people to care homes, given the scale of the outbreak. If we add to that staff absences and the accumulated pressure, it looks like this week is shaping up to be, if not the worst or most challenging week of the pandemic from a health service perspective, certainly one of the most challenging.

09:15  

With regard to routine screening programmes, all adult screening programmes have resumed safely. However, although they have restarted, it is fair to say that they are playing catch-up in some respects. Breast cancer screening has restarted, and, of course, anybody with signs or symptoms of breast cancer should seek screening.

We have taken action to address our screening capacity challenges. On cervical screening, we are having to clinically prioritise higher-risk participants in non-routine pathways. Bowel cancer screening has resumed and new home testing kits have been sent out. That programme is generally operating in line with pre-Covid performance. The triple A鈥攁bdominal aortic aneurysm鈥攕creening has resumed, and men in the highest risk cohorts are being prioritised. Diabetic eye screening has resumed and is targeted towards those with the greatest risk of developing diabetic retinopathy. Therefore, screening has resumed, but there is clinical prioritisation, given the backlogs and capacity constraints.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Humza Yousaf

I am shortly due to meet NHS Fife, local government and the local health and social care partnership. Nicky Connor and her team at NHS Fife do an excellent job. I had very helpful conversations with them about delayed discharges last autumn and winter. We were going in the wrong direction, but we managed to pull that back. However, I am afraid that, because of the most recent wave of the pandemic, we have begun to go in the wrong direction again. I will consider the specifics of the question and raise those issues directly with NHS Fife.

We know of the pattern that Alex Rowley has mentioned in relation to palliative care, and we know that more deaths have occurred at home throughout the pandemic; further investigation is needed on that.

We have committed to producing a palliative care and end-of-life care strategy to ensure that people and their loved ones get the care and support that is right for them when they need it most. To help inform the strategy鈥攂ecause I think that some of the data could be more robust鈥攖he Scottish Centre for Administrative Data Research is already undertaking research to investigate home deaths during the pandemic. That work will help us to understand what strategy we should develop, so that we can understand more clearly the causes of the shift in place of death during the pandemic and whether that will be a long-term trend. If so, we need to ensure that the appropriate structures and, where necessary, the appropriate funding, are in place. That answers the more general part of the question, but I will take up the specifics with the appropriate partners in Fife, whom I am due to meet relatively soon.