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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 430 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

We are getting the balance on that. We will continue to work on a four-nations basis with the UK Government on the various surveillance measures that we have. Waste water sampling is effective. It gives us real-time data in a way that other approaches do not necessarily do, so we will continue to ensure that we have that.

It is also fair to say that we are getting to the transition phase. We had the height of the pandemic and we are now going from pandemic to endemic. As we do that, we will end up treating Covid in the way that we treat other viral infections. Surveillance will be an important part of that transitional phase, as it is for other viral infections.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

That is a very fair question. Some areas have that service. In the Highland service, which I have talked about, there have been 100 referrals and, in Lanarkshire, well over 500 referrals have been made. We lack a single point of access and the connect between the primary care and secondary care services. That is exactly what the funding is intended to address.

I have every faith that more and more health boards will develop those services much more consistently. Some are already doing that. Some are using the funding and giving us timescales for when the pathways will be more fully developed. However, Murdo Fraser has hit the nail on the head. That is the number 1 issue that comes up from long Covid sufferers time and again. They say that it all sounds good, but they ask whether the approach is consistently working across the country. The answer to that is not yet. That is what we are working on.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

You are the second person to sack me in a few weeks.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

That could be the case, but in the absence of such clinics I do not think that we should take our foot off the pedal at all on data gathering. I agree with the first point in your question, which is that having such data will be vital for improving the services that we provide. For me, the challenge in having long Covid clinics from what I have read and seen from the various models across the UK鈥攖here is not just one model鈥攊s that they tend to end up being a bit of a middle man. [Interruption.] I hear a mobile phone ringing. It is like the Oscars: when you have talked for too long the music comes on and they tell you to get off. [Laughter.]

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

Obviously, we are involved in the strategic network, and I might ask some of my officials to come in and add some detail. The model is one that is used for trauma networks; it is well known and well tested, and it has had some very positive outcomes.

In essence, the network brings together key partners鈥攃linical experts, those who are delivering local services and those with lived experience. We can provide more detail on some of the action that has been taken with health boards to create referral pathways, particularly rehabilitative pathways, which we know are working well in some health board areas but which, in others, clearly need more work. As I have said, one of the core issues reported by those in primary care is that they do not have information on where to refer people, and that is why the development of the implementation support note has been really important. A load of key actions has come out of the national strategic network, with more actions to come, but its value lies in bringing those three key partners together to improve services for those who have long Covid.

I do not know whether any of my colleagues want to come in on the topic of strategic networks. Chris Doyle is probably best placed to do so, given his team鈥檚 closer involvement.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

Thanks for that question. You are absolutely right to ask about this. We were always concerned that apathy and vaccine fatigue might kick in among certain cohorts, but it is really important to note that, as the data shows, there has not been such fatigue among others. For example, there is still a good level of uptake from those in our older population and those in residence in care homes. That said, we have seen some drop-off in the 50 to 64 age group, for example.

We had some concerns about the uptake in relation to social care staff, so we put a lot of effort into working with the likes of Scottish Care and others to see whether we could boost those numbers. It is worth saying that our uptake rates for autumn and winter vaccines are still the highest in the United Kingdom, which is a positive, and we continue to work on a four-nations basis to see what we can do in a co-ordinated way.

As you will know, we also had in the past year the Covid sense campaign, which reminded people of good behaviours and what to do if they had Covid symptoms鈥攊t highlighted good hygiene, ventilation and so on鈥攁nd it will continue to make the case for vaccine uptake. Indeed, it will be an important piece of work for us, given that the immediate impacts of Covid are not so evident, now that they are not in our news 24/7. Ultimately, if we can reduce the numbers of people suffering from Covid, we will hopefully reduce the numbers of people impacted by long Covid.

That said, I could not agree more with the premise of your question, which is that we should be doing everything in our gift to increase vaccination rates.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

Yes.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

I do not want a two-tier system. We have heard about that in other areas of the health service where, for example, people have waited for elective care. I will not rehearse the reasons why we are in the position that we are in and why people have felt that they have had to go private. That is not what I want. As the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I want everybody to be able to access NHS services.

I go back to what I said in my opening remarks. The science around the treatment and the symptoms of long Covid is still in its infancy鈥擨 think that everybody around the table would accept that. There is no one treatment that we can give, although a number of treatments can help with some of the symptoms. However, I have heard far too often from long Covid sufferers that, when they go to primary care or their GP, they are passed from pillar to post and there is no single point of access. I think that I can safely say that the majority of the health boards鈥攐r a significant number of them鈥攁re using the funding that we have given to them to create a single point of access so that an individual is not passed from pillar to post.

To answer your question, of course I do not want people to feel that their only option is to go private. That is why we need to improve the services that we have.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

Yes, I accept that. Every single one of the health and social care consequentials that come our way is spent on health and social care. That has been a commitment of this Government for a number of years now. I will look to see where we can possibly increase our funding for long Covid specifically.

However, I go back to the point that I made to Jackie Baillie a moment ago, which is that our front-line spending for health per head is higher than it is in other parts of the UK. Yes, the long Covid support fund is important to increase and supplement some of the on-going work, but it is just that鈥攕upplementary or complementary to the funding that health boards are already spending. That is not just in Lanarkshire, which is the example that I have given, but throughout the country.

In my role, I am more than happy to explore that, and I am certain that whoever is in this role after me will look to explore whether that funding can be increased.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Long Covid Inquiry

Meeting date: 23 March 2023

Humza Yousaf

I agree with your description that some of the most harrowing testimony has been from young children. It is worth paying particular tribute to Helen Goss, who I suspect is known by most people here for what she does with Long Covid Kids Scotland. She is a force of nature. As well as dealing with her own personal circumstances, she has helped a lot of families of children and young people who are suffering the effects of long Covid. I pay particular tribute to the work that she does. She would be the first to say that we have further work to do in that area.

To answer your question directly, for children and young people with symptoms of long Covid, assessment and initial investigation are still provided by the primary care team. Primary care clinicians can, of course, then refer them to occupational health or physiotherapy for further advice or support. I have referred a couple of times to the implementation support note that is there for GPs, which has information on the referral pathways and the other support that exists. That was developed in consultation with the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. It sets out that, where self-management, for example, is not effective, and there is a significant impact on the young person or child鈥檚 education or quality of life, they should be referred to general paediatric services for investigation.

The 拢10 million of funding that we have made available to NHS boards, which I have referenced numerous times already, is also intended to strengthen services for young people with long Covid. One example of that, which I think I mentioned in the letter that I sent to the committee, is NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde鈥檚 recruitment of additional paediatric occupational therapist support for young people, children and their families.

Finally, I will also mention the national strategic network, which I have referenced a couple of times during this session. It is progressing a dedicated workstream that brings together clinical experts and people with lived experience to identify needs and priority actions that are specifically for children and young people.