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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 December 2025
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Displaying 1359 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

Liz Smith

Good morning. Deputy First Minister, as you know, we took evidence from 15 former ministers and former civil servants. The former ministers represented three different political parties who have been in Government over recent times. They were unequivocal in their views that, at times, too much decision making is rushed, unclear and unstructured. Do you agree?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

Liz Smith

Permanent secretary, I want to take you back to the start of your short statement. You said that the third aspect is leadership of the civil service. It was put to us by former members of the civil service that one of the problems with the current civil service is that there are too few people who have ability in relation to commercial expertise. Do you agree with that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

Liz Smith

Okay. So you do not disagree that there has been an issue there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

We will go to Wales first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you, Professor Martin. The distinction that you have made between the two processes with regard to advising ministers is interesting. How easy do you find the second process鈥攖hat is, looking at the evidence and guiding the minister to the data that might have been there previous to the decision that is made? Are you data rich or are there gaps in the knowledge that you have to provide to the minister?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

Can you give us an example of a time when different types of evidence have pointed in different directions and the difficulties that that might have caused?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

I entirely accept the point about cost of living issues, inflation and so on鈥攖hat is absolutely accurate. However, you seem to be suggesting that more information will have to come forward in order to make the second financial memorandum more accurate.

You said that you are having a meeting on 5 June. Can you explain to us your expectations of the additional information that you are looking for so that the committee can be more confident that the second financial memorandum is more reflective of the true costs than the first attempt?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

No committee could expect the figures in any financial memorandum to be absolutely spot-on first time round鈥攖hat is a given, as Parliament鈥檚 experience tells us.

Nevertheless, we are on the back of having a look at the first financial memorandum for the proposed national care service, which鈥攁s you know鈥攚as found, by general consensus, to be very seriously lacking, to the extent that this committee sent it back because it was just not good enough. If we come to a point at which a second financial memorandum is required, that would mean, by implication, either that additional information is forthcoming or that there would be an updated set of statistics that builds on the first financial memorandum.

I am interested to know to what extent you think that the meeting that you are having with stakeholders will bring forward any additional information, because I suggest that that is the expectation.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Liz Smith

The bill stands to benefit a little bit鈥攁s I understand it, other committees have been looking at it, and there is general agreement that the principles of it are good. The concern is that if we are not going to get the second financial memorandum until after stage 1 is completed, that raises questions about the process between stage 1 and stage 2. As the Finance and Public Administration Committee, it is our job to make sure that the process is absolutely watertight and that, between those two stages, the relevant information is put before the Parliament.

As I said, that has been a concern for us with previous bills. Can you give us an undertaking that that will happen so that the new financial memorandum is much more accurate on what the figures will be?