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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 1222 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Liz Smith

I come back to the point that we want a much more sustainable future for the Scottish economy in terms of the revenue that we bring in, in line with necessary increased expenditure, particularly on things such as health and social care and social security. Obviously, that tax revenue is absolutely vital to the future. If we are going to have increased taxation on certain members of the population, as well as structural changes, we have to be clear that what we are suggesting will not provide the disincentives of the sort that the convener set out. It is not necessarily that people are going to move elsewhere, but that they might think, “Well, this isn’t very good for us—we don’t like this extra burden of taxation, so we won’t work quite as much,” which would be a considerable problem for the economy. Also, from a business angle, people think, “Do we want a higher tax burden in Scotland? Probably not.” Do you accept that that is a view that, certainly, business and industry hold?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Liz Smith

Yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Liz Smith

On a related issue, the Scottish Fiscal Commission has made a very important point about our demographic structure, which is that one of the problems that we have in the Scottish economy is the size of the working population compared with the total population. Do you believe that the green ports initiative can help not only to create new jobs but to get some people who have left the labour market back into it to help with some of the issues that we have in the Scottish budget?

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

Good morning. Professor Roy, I come back to an answer that you gave to the convener about the important issue of the increase in public spending and tax revenues. You set out that increasing productivity is all very well but there are issues about the rate of change in the public spending commitment as well as the rate of change in tax. That is what will be crucial.

I relate that to a comment that David Bell made:

“Nevertheless, given the potential consequences of a widening fiscal gap on the ability to provide public services, it is important that as full an understanding of the causes of changes in demand for public services and changes in tax revenues be available to”

the Scottish Government as possible. How easy is it to get the necessary data to understand what is causing the changes in demand for public services? That is critical to policy decision making.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

I am interested in the issue because, as you rightly said, it gets to the heart of policy making. I fully understand the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s role in the matter and that you are very much involved in the quantitative statistical analysis, such as projecting demographic trends and how the population is changing. However, what matters to policy makers is whether there are trends within those demographic changes that lead to changes in demand. That is the crucial point for the Scottish Government. From the work that you do over years, would it be possible to isolate some trends in that change in demand or would the commission not do that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

I ask the question because, before the summer recess, we held a number of sessions with witnesses from the public sector. As a committee, we have been asking what we can do to progress public sector reform. The answer depends on some of the stuff that you are saying, because knowing what the future demand for some public services will be, and whether demand will increase or fall, is absolutely critical for the Scottish Government to be able to make sensible policy announcements. I am anxious to know whether we think that we have the right data to enable us to get to that set of information, so that the Scottish Government, and the committee, are able to make sensible policy suggestions.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

I understand the point that you are making—it is not your job to suggest the policies. However, to be effective in policy making, we need the right data. In your sustainability report, you have projected increases in health spending, social care spending and social security spending over 50 years. Those are all big asks. It is helpful to understand what the demand is composed of and whether there are other areas of public sector spending in which there might be a little more scope for efficiencies. That is a dilemma that faces the committee.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Liz Smith

My final question is about preventative spend. I find it incredibly difficult to measure, because it is almost an unknown. However, it matters as an opportunity cost as well as in considering how much money we could save because of it. Do you have any guidance as to what methodology we should use to look at preventative spend? It will matter for policy.