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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1221 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

Forgive me, but the Scottish Government has already made its choices. Michael Marra asked you when we would get an options paper. The key point here, which I have already questioned you and Shirley-Anne Somerville on in the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, is that, if there is evidence that proves that various social security policies would provide better outcomes than other policies when it comes to child poverty, surely it is the duty of the Scottish Government to provide that evidence, in line with the questions that the committee is asking. For example, what specific evidence have you found to show that the delivery of mitigation of the two-child cap would provide better outcomes than, say, an increase in the Scottish child payment? Where is that evidence?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

The committee asked for an options paper because making such interventions is a very expensive business and, given the state of the public finances at the moment, we cannot afford to do everything that we would like to do, so big choices must be made. The Scottish Government will argue that the choices on its social contract with the people of Scotland are its number 1 priority. However, that social contract can come about only if we have the money coming in to deliver it.

I would argue strongly鈥攁s, I think, would the committee鈥攖hat the public finances are under considerable strain. Therefore, if choices must be made, surely we need an options paper to show where you think the outcomes will be most effective. That is why the committee asked for that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

I do not think that that explains the difference between the DWP and Social Security Scotland.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

I do not doubt that ministers have had discussions on the matter. Our job as the Finance and Public Administration Committee is to look at the effective spend of our public finances and to ensure that the evidence is there to support the choices that are made. My colleague Michael Marra asked for a specific options paper that we could scrutinise to look at what you call investments when it comes to various policies. A good investment will have good results. Therefore, if there are various options that involve different kinds of investment, you will want to weigh up the balance of the effective outcomes, particularly when it comes to action on child poverty, which is the Scottish Government鈥檚 number 1 priority. I do not think that we have had that information.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

That would be helpful.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

Let us assume that action on child poverty is the number 1 priority for the Scottish Government鈥攚hich, as I understand it, it is. Given the state of the public finances, particularly with the considerable uplift in the social security budget鈥攊t is a huge increase, especially in a single budget鈥攚e cannot afford all the commitments that the Scottish Government has made without finding an awful lot of extra money.

There are two parts to my question. First, where is that extra money coming from? Secondly, on what basis is the Scottish Government making decisions on where the outcomes will be best when it comes to the delivery of social security?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

Cabinet secretary, I want to pursue our dialogue about social security spend. At your most recent appearance before the committee, you made various commitments. I will start with one that you made to Michael Marra when he asked you, in relation to the various aspects of the two-child cap mitigation,

鈥淲ill you write to the committee with information on the options appraisal that you carried out, setting out why you chose that option in preference to some of the others?鈥濃擺Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 14 January 2025; c 43.]

What has happened to that commitment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Liz Smith

I will push you on that, because I think that it is very important that we see that evidence.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 16 January 2025

Liz Smith

I am not questioning the decisions or the criteria that you have set out鈥攖here is just a bit of a contradiction here. The process is supposed to be much more user friendly and much easier; at the same time, however, your own survey is saying that people in receipt of adult disability and child disability payments are not finding it particularly easy, compared with the process for other benefits. Can you explain why that is?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 16 January 2025

Liz Smith

I am just trying to get to the answer to this mystery.