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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1221 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 1 April 2025

Liz Smith

Both, actually. You said at that breakfast seminar that there is a bit of a trade-off whereby we have to measure up what the Scottish Government should prioritise. That was one of the best events that you have run in the Parliament, because it gave us a wider perspective on what the challenges are, and the reason why it was good is that we got additional data. The charge on this Parliament is to measure how effectively we are spending public money. I just wonder whether there are extra bits of information that we could have.

10:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 1 April 2025

Liz Smith

Would it help the pursuit of getting the right evidence? It would increase the scrutiny.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Fiscal Commission

Meeting date: 1 April 2025

Liz Smith

Paragraph 1.2 of the OECD report is titled “The SFC has strengthened relationships with key stakeholders”, and you mentioned some of those stakeholders. Why do you think that your relationships have improved? Is it because your personal contacts are very strong, or is it because you have a greater understanding of those stakeholders and more data on what they are doing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 1 April 2025

Liz Smith

Those are policy choices—they are not for you but for politicians. We cannot make effective, evidence-based decisions about public spending priorities until we know what the good-quality data is and what the effects of decisions are. That is basically what we are after. It has been a past concern of the Auditor General, as well as yourself, that we need to do more on that basis.

We have discussed twice before the possibility of having a finance bill, which I think could help us, but you are not going to answer that question. However, do you feel that a fiscal framework between central Government and local government could help that process?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 1 April 2025

Liz Smith

Local authorities often tell us that they have been on single-year budgets—it is a bit hand to mouth—so they are having to make very quick decisions and are not necessarily looking to the medium term. One of the reasons—this is a personal view—that I feel that a fiscal framework arrangement could help that process is that it could improve the transparency and the expectation of what evidence could be provided before decisions are made.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Liz Smith

Good morning, permanent secretary. Following on from your previous appearance, I wonder whether I could ask you about what the committee considers to be a very important issue: public sector reform. We are all agreed on the need for public sector reform, and one of the most important things is the size of the public sector and how that plays out in the Scottish Government budget.

The other part of that, which you have been discussing with the convener, is the head count in the core civil service. When it comes to determining the size of the core civil service, is that decision made by the First Minister or by you, as permanent secretary? Is it a minister? Who decides on that? Last time, we were left a little bit in the dark about that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Liz Smith

So, we could add that to your successes in your term of office, to go back to the convener’s earlier question about what you see as achievements.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Liz Smith

That was helpful. You will understand why I am asking these questions. This committee has the important job of scrutinising the Government’s budget, and, when it comes to the size of the civil service and the efficiencies that you are making, there is a bit of a grey area with regard to scrutiny, because we like to know that any decisions made are designed to improve outcomes. That is the key thing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Liz Smith

That is helpful. The reason for the framework bill process is to engage effectively with stakeholders on the bill before it is presented in full to Parliament. The more that stakeholders are involved, the more you feel that there is credibility to your bill.

The problem is that our experience has proven that, for a framework bill that is at an early stage, it is almost impossible to get the right idea of the costs from the financial memorandum. I am interested in hearing from the permanent secretary whether the Parliament should be reviewing that difficulty in getting accurate costs as a potential problem.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Liz Smith

That was helpful, and Mr McKee has given the committee a good outline of that, too, but just to be absolutely clear, who is the final decider of the number of people in the core civil service? Is it Mr McKee, as minister; you, as permanent secretary; or the First Minister?