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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 1222 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you. That is helpful. Finally, was there any discussion about the availability of staff to deliver in the centres?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Good morning. I will quote from the Audit Scotland report “Early learning and childcare: Follow-up”, which was published in 2020. Key message 5 of the report says that a lot of work is being undertaken

“to capture important baseline information. However, challenges to the evaluation process remain.”

Could you explain what data local authorities are using, particularly when it comes to assessing uptake? What data are they using to assess the reasons why quite a number of children—particularly two-year-olds—are not taking up the offer of a place?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you for that answer. I think that it is important that we have good-quality data, which Audit Scotland was obviously requesting.

You suggested earlier that one reason for changes in uptake might be the pandemic, which is possibly true, and you have just suggested that it could be to do with stigma, although I am not sure that that would follow the logic in relation to three to five-year-olds; nonetheless, that is possible, too.

Is it not the case, however, that there could be quite a lot of data that suggests that one of the reasons for weaker uptake is the pressure on staffing, which is something else that Audit Scotland flagged up in 2020? There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that staffing is particularly difficult. You know of some reasons, but is it not important that we try to understand all the reasons for there being such pressure?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Is it about the level of understanding that is so critical to making the policy work effectively, collaboratively and obviously gain good inspection results? Is it the case that some local authorities feel unable to promote that partnership in the same way? Is there a little bit of an ignorance factor? What is stopping all local authorities from appreciating what the good local authorities are delivering very satisfactorily?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

In other words, there is a problem with engagement with some local authorities whereas other local authorities are much better at engaging with the sector—is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Could you evidence that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you all very much for your evidence, both oral and written. Some of your comments are quite concerning, and they tie in exactly with some of the anecdotal evidence I am receiving in my constituency region of Mid Scotland and Fife.

I am interested in what Ms Brumpton and Mr McAlister said about some local authorities understanding the problems that you have cited and working better with your sectors. Why do you think that those local authorities are better able to understand the issues that you are raising? Perhaps conversely, what is it about other local authorities that means they are not engaging so well and do not feel able to give you the benefit of being able to sort the policy?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

That would be very helpful, convener. We want to know what is working well and, if there are examples where it is not working well, that evidence would help us in our general scrutiny.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts, Resource Spending Review and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Liz Smith

Sorry, I will press you on this, cabinet secretary, because it is absolutely vital to the policies. It is extremely helpful that we have a statement that looks over a longer period of time—it is the first that we have had since 2011.

You are making choices and setting your policy commitments based, I hope, on what you see as the accurate statistics. Given what you said last week, I want to know what you think we need to take into consideration that changes the statistic that the Scottish Fiscal Commission produced relatively recently.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts, Resource Spending Review and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Liz Smith

I understand that. I am asking you to tell us—because it is important, as you have acknowledged—if, as you rightly point out, those changes have all taken place, what figure are you using for the black hole in the public finances?