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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 2212 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Graham Simpson

I understand that, but the very commissioning of that report makes me feel that the committee needs a little bit of background to all this that it has not had.

I have the minutes from the 8 June 2021 board of management meeting. Under a section entitled, “Internal Audit Update”, it says:

“The Chair updated members ... on a number of allegations of potential staff misconduct within one of the college faculties. The allegations related to 3 separate matters:

Systematic bullying and intimidation of a number of staff over a prolonged period

Potential financial irregularities (of private businesses operating from college premises, using college materials and lecturing staff time)

Potential timetabling anomalies (fabrication of hours, of students, of classes).”

This has been reported in the press previously—I am not saying anything new. However, we have here, in black and white, in the board of management minutes, an allegation of private businesses operating from college premises.

Earlier, Auditor General, you said that millions of pounds of public money were not being overseen. That point is extremely relevant here. Were you aware of any of those allegations?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Graham Simpson

Thank you very much, convener. It is good to be back at the committee. I served on the Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee in the previous session, but I should say that I have no relevant interests to declare—I do not think that what is declared carries over from one session to another.

It has been interesting to listen to the lines of questioning from members. I will pick up on some of what has been said, but I also have questions of my own. I have been aware of concerns about the college for some time now, and I have been approached by people at the college. Willie Coffey asked about the impact on staff. I have been an elected member—both as a councillor and as an MSP—for some time, and I have never come across a situation in which people are as scared as they are in this case. That applies to current staff and former staff. I have never seen anything like it. I will give the committee some background to that, because it has not had it yet.

Craig Hoy mentioned the meeting on 4 November last year, at which there were six new board members. Of course, that was the meeting at which the principal, Aileen McKechnie, and the interim clerk to the board, Brian Keegan, were suspended. There is a question about whether a board with six new members who had not gone through proper training should have taken such a big decision. A representative of the Scottish Funding Council was also present at that meeting. Was that appropriate?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Graham Simpson

So it was in November.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Graham Simpson

Okay. I think that the same point applies, though. There were brand-new members who had not gone through proper training by then, and a representative of the Scottish Funding Council was present at that meeting, so the same question applies, whether the suspensions happened on 4 November or 30 November.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Instruments subject to Negative Procedure

Meeting date: 26 April 2022

Graham Simpson

I am content with all that, but it strikes me that the very fact that the instrument breaches the 28-day rule suggests strongly that it has been rushed through, for the reasons that have been outlined. The instrument involves the use of a new test for rabies, which gives quicker results than the one that has been used traditionally, from which people get the results in two weeks—with the new test, the results come back in two to three days.

I am not sure which committee will be the lead committee but, whichever one it is, it should look at the issue and satisfy itself that the new test is up to the job. I am sure that it is—I have no reason to think otherwise—but the lead committee ought to look at that because, no matter where an animal has come from, we need to ensure that we are safe.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

P&O Ferries

Meeting date: 29 March 2022

Graham Simpson

Morning, Mr Hebblethwaite. You mentioned the shareholder quite a bit. Was the shareholder putting pressure on you to do what you did?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

P&O Ferries

Meeting date: 29 March 2022

Graham Simpson

There is nothing unique about that. Many other companies have faced the same position and, to be frank, have taken a more honourable route than you have chosen.

Can I ask you about Grant Shapps? He has written to you, and the deputy convener mentioned earlier that Mr Shapps may be bringing in some law changes. If he does that, how will it affect your business?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

P&O Ferries

Meeting date: 29 March 2022

Graham Simpson

The changes could affect rates of pay. You said earlier that it is not about rates of pay, so presumably you will not be too concerned about that. Is that the case?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

P&O Ferries

Meeting date: 29 March 2022

Graham Simpson

If the shareholder was not putting pressure on you to do it, would it not have been sensible to ask it whether it was happy with what you planned and whether it was content with the current arrangements?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

P&O Ferries

Meeting date: 29 March 2022

Graham Simpson

What was unique about the situation? You have not explained that.