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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 June 2025
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Displaying 2190 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

Your opening statement was very honest, and you apologised to everyone, but it is probably worth reading out some of the evidence that we have received. I do not know whether you have seen it—[Interruption.] I see that you have.

I was struck by the letter from Jennifer Harrower, the deputy Crown Agent, who describes a situation in which

“there were 16 family members or nearest relatives in attendance for a murder case which was due to call at 9.30 am. The accused was not delivered until approximately 5 pm. This had a significant personal impact upon them.”

That is just one case.

We have also heard about people not turning up for video identification parades. The chief constable refers to that in her letter, but that particular murder case sounds absolutely dreadful. I presume that the case did not even go ahead, because the accused was delivered so late.

You are keeping people who will be in an emotional state hanging around all day. That is just not acceptable, is it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

No company can continue making those sorts of losses.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

Could you see yourself getting to a point where you say that you cannot continue with that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

In your letter, you say:

“It is, therefore, our firm belief that we can deliver prisoner escort services to a high standard”

You go on to say that that will be

“when the environment is supportive, and system-related issues are resolved.”

What are you basing that on, given what we have already heard and that you are making colossal losses?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Graham Simpson

We have touched on staffing, which is clearly a key issue. We have also mentioned pay and the pay gap between what you pay and what others pay. Are you seeking to rectify that? Do you think that you will have to increase your levels of pay?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Graham Simpson

Can you get that for us?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Graham Simpson

We have a couple of bits of correspondence with your name on them. There is an email from you, dated 3 November 2023, to “Alan”—I assume that that is the former chief executive—in which you wrote about a training course. You said:

“had I been informed I would have agreed with the approach”.

Why would you have agreed with the approach?

09:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Graham Simpson

The committee has heard that a number of people in the commission had credit cards that had no limit on spending, apparently. Maybe a number of people still have them. A person could just go out and spend whatever they liked with those cards. Is that still the case?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Graham Simpson

It is unbelievable that nobody thought to question that expenditure. Now you would, but nobody at the time thought to question it.