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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 2212 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I apologise for the phraseology, but I think that the bill is quite clear about what I am trying to achieve. It is not about dealing with people who are “not performing properly”, because that is subjective.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

That is the key issue, really, and it is something that I really wrestled with when I was thinking about the bill. For a while, I did not have a solution and I just thought that I was going to have to give up on recall; then it hit me that I was thinking about it in the wrong way. If we are going to have a power of recall—and all parties in the Parliament seem to agree that we should have something—we must address the fact that we have this odd electoral system, which I have said in this committee that I do not like, but which we are stuck with, so I must work with it.

For constituency members, it is relatively straightforward—we can almost mirror the system in Westminster and improve on it, as I said last week. We could ultimately have the best recall system in the United Kingdom at the end of this. However, we also must balance that with the fact that we have regional members.

With a constituency member who is subject to recall, there are two stages. First, the voters are asked whether the member should be recalled, and, secondly, there is a by-election if a threshold is met. What struck me about that approach was that the member, should they wish to proceed—some will not—would be able to put their case to the electors and say why they should stay on. When looking at the regional situation, I wondered whether it would be fair to replicate that process as closely as possible. Although I accept that there will be an enormous cost if that ever comes about, it seemed to me that it would be fair—and, ultimately, fair to the member—to have that two-stage process. I think that most of us in this room are regional members. If it were any of us, I think that we would want the ability to put our case to the electorate if we wished to fight the recall, because otherwise—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

Oh, no—definitely not.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

Correct. It is not for me to get into individual court cases. I mentioned that particular case because it happened and serious offences were involved. To merit that somebody be jailed for six months, the crime would have to be of a sufficient seriousness. However, I do not think that we should list in the bill the offences that would be covered.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

Yes, but you have asked me about constituency members, and what you have tried to do in your question is conflate the regional element with what happens for constituencies. If a constituency member decides to stand down, there is a by-election. If a regional member decides to stand down, there is no by-election; they are simply replaced. If we were to conflate the two, we might have to revisit the Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) (Scotland) Act 2025, and I am not sure that Jamie Hepburn would be too happy about that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I see what you mean. I will go back to what I said earlier. If a member is subject to recall, it is likely to mean a good deal of publicity. They will have done something pretty bad. Any regional member who might not be widely known will suddenly become widely known—that can pretty much be guaranteed.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I put that question to you. I throw it out to the committee. If the committee is thinking that way, it needs to consider that if we are going to do something with the regional element, we would have to look at the constituency element as well. Otherwise, it is not fair.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I am not sure that I understand that question.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I will bring in Ben on that one, because we have covered that issue in the policy memorandum.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

No, absolutely not—10 per cent is not enough to kick somebody out of a Parliament.