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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 2297 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

On staff terms and conditions and salaries throughout the management structure, have we managed to achieve the transition almost immediately? If we are still in the process of doing that, can you explain to the committee why it could not be achieved immediately after the transition process in order to ensure that the new salary structures and so on were implemented as quickly as possible?

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

The current Scottish Government is saddled with that historical PFI legacy, and the ratio of cost to delivery with PFI is roughly five-and-a-half to one. Does the mutual investment model offer a better ratio of repayment for the public? Paying something like five-and-a-half times more for the capital cost of the construction of a school, hospital or prison probably seems excessive to the public as well. Peter Reekie, you mentioned the profit-sharing aspect of MIM. Can the public look forward to a better ratio of return on that kind of investment in the future?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

It sounds as if one of the lessons to be learned is to begin that discussion and negotiation about terms and conditions and TUPE transfers a little earlier in the process, so that the staff could look forward to the earliest possible change at the transition point rather than waiting, potentially, up to another year. Is that a fair comment or would it be impossible to do it earlier?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

It was a good try.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

I have a question for Neil Rennick or perhaps Peter Reekie about the overall costs. When will we know the final cost of the transition process? When will we know the future costs of operating Kilmarnock prison in the public sector compared with the private sector? The public will always want to be assured that they get value for money from anything that we do.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

Is there an exit cost associated with this PFI?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

Some PFI contracts automatically incur an exit cost when they come to an end. Is there an exit cost in this case?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

I am glad to hear that. Thank you.

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

Good morning, everybody.

First, I will put on the record what a fantastic job Serco did at Kilmarnock Prison during the period of the contract, which has been the past 25 years, and particularly in recent years under the direction of Craig Thomson. I was happy to be part of that process over many years and am still part of the transition process.

I would like to get a flavour, perhaps from Neil Rennick to begin with, about the transition process itself. When did the transition process begin? When will we see it completed? Of course, there are a number of issues to discuss with you about the process itself. Could you give the committee members a flavour of the transition process and the key issues and themes that had to be covered?

Public Audit Committee

Expiring Private Finance Initiative Contracts

Meeting date: 6 June 2024

Willie Coffey

Could you and your colleagues describe particular issues that we are currently dealing with in the transition process? There is perhaps an expectation that when a transition is announced it can happen overnight, but we know that that is not possible. I would be obliged to you鈥擨 am sure that all committee members would be interested鈥攊f we could hear what the main issues are in the transition process. Are there issues about salaries, conditions or staffing, for example? Could you give us a flavour of what you have had to face?