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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 1329 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

Thank you. May we hear from Ian Duddy, please?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

No one else wants to come in. Alice and Robin, thank you both so much. We have gone slightly over time, but your evidence has been really helpful to the committee in its deliberations.

I will suspend the meeting for about five minutes.

10:29 Meeting suspended.  

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

Victor Madrigal-Borloz wants to come in briefly on that point.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

It is either Barbara Bolton or Cathy Asante who is answering questions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

Thanks very much. You have all put the pronunciation of your names on the record, I hope. I will stick with first names going forward in the session.

I will move to questions, starting with Maggie Chapman.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

I will pick up on a couple of points. We invited Dr Cass to give evidence, but she declined and referred us to her interim report. It is worth noting that Dr Cass’s remit specifically relates to NHS England. Obviously, anyone can look at her report.

Rachael Hamilton and Naomi Cunningham made a point about taking specialist evidence on children, and Naomi Cunningham talked about lawyers. I suggest to anyone who is watching that they look at our evidence session with the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland. Obviously, he is not a lawyer, but he had access to lawyers in answering the committee’s questions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

That is why I am saying that anyone who wants to see the evidence that was given can go to the Scottish Parliament website, and they can obviously read the Official Report, too.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

Thank you.

Before we start, I will make a short statement on some relevant developments in order to update members and people who follow our work. Today, we will hear from two expert panels as part of our stage 1 evidence on the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. The committee had hoped to hear evidence from Professor Alice Sullivan in today’s first panel. Although she is not able to join us today, I am pleased that she has accepted our invitation and should be with us on Tuesday 21 June.

We had also hoped to hear from Dr Hilary Cass in today’s second panel, but she has declined the committee’s invitation. She said that she has published her interim report and referred us to that and other published statements that she has made.

The committee had also invited a number of respected associations representing medical professionals to give evidence, but several have declined the committee’s invitation to attend in person today. Some have agreed to give written evidence, which the committee will be able to consider as part of our stage 1 inquiry.

Last week, the committee heard from witnesses representing faith groups and secular society. Ahead of that session, as committee members are aware, the committee had approached a range of faith groups but, for a variety of reasons, some declined our invitation to attend last week. I hope that that provides clarity for people who are following the committee’s work.

As has been agreed by the committee, the clerks are working with a variety of parents groups to organise an informal evidence session in order that we can hear from parents whose children have transgender identity. The clerks are also trying to arrange for the committee to hear informally from people who have transitioned but who have thereafter chosen to reverse that process. The clerks will publish details on those sessions in due course.

I hope that that information helps to clarify some of the queries about the committee’s agreed approach to oral evidence sessions.

Under our first agenda item, we will continue to take evidence on the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. I welcome our first panel: Professor Sharon Cowan is professor of feminist and queer legal studies in the University of Edinburgh’s school of law; Naomi Cunningham is a barrister at Outer Temple Chambers, and chair of Sex Matters; and Karon Monaghan QC is a barrister at Matrix Chambers. I refer members to papers 1 and 2.

I invite each witness to make a short opening statement.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

Good morning, and welcome to the 18th meeting in session 6 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received apologies from Karen Adam, and Emma Roddick is attending as a substitute. As usual, I ask Emma Roddick to declare any relevant interests.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Joe FitzPatrick

I thank all three of our witnesses. We have gone a little over the time that we had indicated to you that we had, so I thank you for giving us your time and evidence. Perhaps this evidence session is one of those that would have been better as a round-table discussion; I got the feeling that we were getting into that territory.

I suspend the meeting for around five minutes.

11:30 Meeting suspended.  

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