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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 2049 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Bob Doris

Mr Balfour, the policy intent of amendment 14 seems to be to have a presumption in favour of face-to-face hearings rather than a presumption in favour of choice, but your argument seems to be that you want the policy intent to be to have a presumption in favour of choice rather than a presumption in favour of face-to-face hearings. I am concerned that your policy intent does not match your amendment.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Bob Doris

I appreciate the balanced approach that Mr O鈥橩ane is taking in considering the amendments. Whatever the committee and Parliament ultimately decide, does he agree that if someone does not supply information, that does not necessarily mean that there has been an overpayment or any fraud? It could mean that there is vulnerability, which is why they have not got back to Social Security Scotland. If we proceed with the suspension of payments, which I think we should do, we have to be very clear about the threshold in relation to welfare checks around when suspension might ultimately kick in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Bob Doris

I am supportive of the position that you outline, cabinet secretary, but I am also conscious that Mr Balfour suggested a scenario in which the individual wanted the representative to stay in place but, for whatever reason, the paperwork, the bureaucracy and the administration around refreshing that authorisation went astray. There could be a variety of reasons for that, and I think that Mr Balfour鈥擨 am not speaking for him; I am just trying to get clarity from you, cabinet secretary鈥攚as worried that that could be an unintended consequence of withdrawing that representative mandate. What safeguards would be in place under the Government position? Is it more about the culture and practice within the system than having specific provisions in the bill?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Bob Doris

I will come on to that later in my contribution, but I refute the way in which Mr Balfour has framed his question to me. I will say more about that a little later, too.

If we were to take Mr Balfour鈥檚 advice, Social Security Scotland would have the best audit in the world. I accept that the level of fraud is very low at the moment, but I think that it would be almost completely non-existent, and errors would be almost non-existent, too, if we had a self-selecting audit. Those likely to step forward to be audited in the first place would be those who were absolutely not likely to have had an overpayment or to have engaged in fraudulent activity. It would be the best audit in the world and would show that Social Security Scotland was doing a fantastic job. I am sure that it is doing a very good job, but we have to identify any weaknesses that there might be, and a self-selecting audit would not allow us to do so.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Bob Doris

No pressure on me to be concise then, convener. I appreciate your proactive chastisement of my remarks.

I believe that Jeremy Balfour has made incredibly well-intentioned and important arguments, but I genuinely and sincerely think that his solutions are weak. I would make a similar point about Maggie Chapman鈥檚 amendment 58, too, and I will reflect on that in my contribution.

Having an audit process that was entirely voluntary, as Mr Balfour appears to suggest, would mean that it would not be systematic and methodical, and that would be a key weakness in trying to meet the recommendations that Audit Scotland made a few years ago. It would put the legislation at a disadvantage if we were to agree to Mr Balfour鈥檚 amendment, so I suggest that we do not do so.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Bob Doris

I will seek to be brief, convener. I want to follow up Gordon MacDonald鈥檚 line of questioning to Al Denholm on how the removal of financial transactions and capital revenues might have changed the Scottish National Investment Bank鈥檚 investment decisions. Mr Denholm, you talked about the target rate of return and the reinvestment rate, but a thread running through this whole thing is the need to support Scotland鈥檚 moving to net zero by 2045. Might the investment decisions that are being made lead the bank to make certain decisions that prioritise investment return and sustainability instead of maximising the pursuit of net zero by 2045?

I have a horse in this race鈥攚ell, we all have a horse in this race, but I am a member of the Scottish Parliament鈥檚 Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, which is looking at five-year carbon budgets and the next plan in relation to all of this, and we know that we need to leverage in more major private investment than public investment if we are to get to net zero. Are investment decisions being changed and altered in a way that might compromise that private investment, because of the removal of UK financial transactions revenues?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Bob Doris

Is that exactly the same for Scottish Enterprise?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Bob Doris

That is concerning. I will not come back in after this, convener, but just following on from Mr MacDonald鈥檚 line of questioning, I appreciate that, obviously, you have to look at investment not just through the lens of the greatest impact that it will make, including on our net zero ambitions, but through the lens of the greatest return that will allow Scottish Enterprise and SNIB to get to sustainability as quickly as possible. This particular situation has not compromised net zero investment in any way, has it?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Bob Doris

Okay. Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 September 2024

Bob Doris

Please, convener.