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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 December 2025
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Displaying 2447 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

The bill says that the function is

“to promote the wellbeing of future generations by promoting sustainable development by public bodies in all aspects of their decisions, policies and actions.”

That is the overarching intention for the function of the future generations commissioner, as it is outlined in the bill. Can you see a situation in which that definition and those functions could overlap with or rub against the functions of another commissioner or public body?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

If you wanted to reflect on the question and write to us, that would be helpful. It is difficult because we have a bill that may become statute, so we are looking for concrete examples of things that, by definition, do not exist but could happen in the future.

I will ask about the costs that are set out in the financial memorandum. I get that you are all here to talk about the policy intent, but we have to ask about the costs. From my notes—if I can read my own handwriting—I see that the establishment costs are about £800,000 and the running costs are about £1.2 million. As things stand, the running costs for the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales are about £1.8 million.

Do the witnesses have any reflections on whether those costs are appropriate? Are they too low or too high? Last week, I asked witnesses to comment on whether the proposal was value for money. I ask Duncan Thorp to respond first, and I will also ask Emma Hunter, on the basis that she is directly involved in the running of a commissioner’s office.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you for answering both questions at the same time, which was very helpful. What are the opportunities and potential longer-term cost savings in making that investment now? I will ask Duncan Thorp first and then go along the witnesses.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

I was interested in the answers to Carol Mochan’s question about the general function of the proposed commissioner being

“to promote the wellbeing of future generations by promoting sustainable development by public bodies in all aspects of their decisions, policies and actions.”

Emma Hunter talked about the possibility of overlap between commissioners. Could there be a situation in which the Children and Young People’s Commissioner was looking at aspects of public bodies that did not meet some of the requirements that are in the bill? You mentioned the Scottish Human Rights Commission. In relation to the definition of the proposed commissioner’s functions—I may be hinting at nothing here—can you give a tangible example of where there could be an overlap? I know that this is theoretical because the commissioner does not exist yet, but where might overlap occur in practice?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

I feel as though I am targeting you now, Mr Thorp, so I apologise for pursuing this with you further. Would it make sense to rationalise commissioners in that way before we set up another commissioner? For example, yesterday, the Parliament passed the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill, which created a new commissioner, which will sit within the existing Scottish Land Commission in order to share back-office functions and make cost savings. It is a chicken-and-egg situation—what should we do first?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

Emma Hunter, do you want to reflect on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

I am about to bring in Jenny Munro on a specific question about the RTPI, but I will flag my final question. Will there be opportunities—if a commissioners office worked well—for long-term cost savings? I will leave that question hanging there—I will ask you all about the long-term cost savings of such an investment, as it would be helpful to get comments on that.

Jenny, I did not want to have you here without asking you about pressures on local authorities and planning departments. I suppose that, theoretically, that could be another pressure on local authority planning departments. Are they well placed to deal with what the bill would introduce, whether that is a new responsibility or a clear statutory focus on an existing responsibility? Are there any financial implications for local authorities?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

That concludes our public business for the day.

10:10 Meeting continued in private until 11:22.  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

It was a helpful tangent, Ellie. We will listen back to your evidence and we will consider it. It all helps the committee to form its views, so thank you.

Emma, do you want to add anything?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Bob Doris

That is very helpful. I will come to you next, Jenny. Turning to my prompt question—in case this had not already come up—Emma Hunter has suggested that the national performance framework and Scotland’s national outcomes have not really been as effective as we wanted them to be. If we can work well, being clearer and more focused and with a more deliverable approach, might that be a better way of doing things than the proposed legislation—or, rather, an alternative to the legislation, as “a better way” is more of a biased comment? Do you have any comments to make on that, Jenny?